full
Erik's Marketing Agency Triumph Scaling to $500M and Beyond
Kasim and Ralph sit down with Erik Huberman, the founder and CEO of Hawke Media, to talk about the challenges agency owners face as they scale their business. Erik also shares the strategies they employed to build a $500M Marketing Agency. From the importance of authenticity and expertise to the power of effective communication, Erik unveils all his secrets.
This clip is from The Perpetual Traffic Podcast, watch the entire video here:
3 Steps to How Erik Huberman Built a $500M Marketing Agency | EP 515:
• 3 Steps to How Erik Huberman Built a ...
Connect with Erik on LinkedIn:
Connect with Perpetual Traffic:
Facebook - https://fb.me/perpetualtrafficpodcast
Web: https://perpetualtraffic.com/
0:00 Erik's Marketing Agency Triumph: Scaling to $500M and Beyond
3:33 The importance of margins
4:45 Good communication trumps good marketing
7:34 Specific processes for good communication
Need help with Google Ads? Get your FREE action plan here: https://sol8.com/ap/
💣 The Ultimate Guide to Google Ads for 2023:
• The Ultimate Guide to Google Ads for ...
🔥 Get your copy of You vs. Google: The (Very) Unauthorized Guide to Google Ads
on Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BWSNLNRN
This ULTIMATE GUIDE gives you EVERYTHING you need to know about how to set up, build and optimize your Google Ads Performance Max campaigns: https://sol8.com/performance-max/
💰 Have an ad budget that's less than $5,000/month? If so, check out our sister agency, StarterPPC, where you can get Google Ads management for a fraction of the cost!
Visit https://www.starterppc.com for more information. 🚀
We have dozens of free resources, courses, downloads, calculators, and other goodies. You can access all of them on our Free Stuff page!
Visit: https://sol8.com/free-stuff/
💯The Ultimate Guide to Google Ads for Lead Generation:
https://sol8.com/google-ads-lead-gene...
🛒 Everything you need to know about Google Ads for eCommerce:
https://sol8.com/google-ads-for-ecomm...
🧲 The only guide you’ll ever need for Google Ads for YouTube:
https://sol8.com/google-ads-for-youtube/
👉 Do you want to be featured on Daily Google News? Do you have epic value you can offer our audience? You can pitch your idea here: https://sol8.com/pitch/
--------------------------------------------------
👉 Get our latest content every Monday, straight to your inbox. Sign up for our news “Traffic Ahead”: https://sol8.com/newsletter/
--------------------------------------------------
Get the latest updates, expert tips, best practices, and PROVEN Google Ads strategies every single day. Subscribe here:
--------------------------------------------------
👉 Want to become a Google Ads expert?
We’ve demystified how Google works, and laid out everything you need to know in Google Ads–from scratch!
Learn how to build, launch and manage high-performing Google Ads campaigns in this Google Ads Course: http://sol8.com/paid-traffic-mastery
--------------------------------------------------
Solutions 8 is a global authority in the Google Ads space and one of the world's leading PPC agencies.
Our YouTube channel is dedicated to sharing our most effective marketing strategies to help you achieve your business goals.
--------------------------------------------------
👉 WOULD LIKE TO SCALE AND GROW YOUR BUSINESS WITH PPC?
Sign up for a FREE Action Plan today: https://bit.ly/sol8-home
Connect with Kasim here: https://smartlink.metricool.com/publi...
⬇️️ You can find us here ⬇️️:
Website: https://sol8.com/
#googleads
Transcript
Kasim:
So talk to me about that stair step of growth for agency
2
:
owners that are listening here.
3
:
, I think a lot of them are sort
of stuck at individual levels.
4
:
Like it's always, I don't know who
said it, but it's every time you three
5
:
X, you basically everything breaks
if not in and around that point.
6
:
So zero to a hundred thousand to 300, 000
to a million it just goes on from there.
7
:
One of the things that.
8
:
I think a lot of agency owners really
struggle with is that CX component is
9
:
that customer satisfaction component?
10
:
And where do you double down on
that in that evolution of growth?
11
:
Which is a challenge because
this is a service based business.
12
:
And, going back to Customs original
premise, which is obviously not
13
:
accurate based upon your success and
the success of the Baines of the world.
14
:
And the McKinsey's of the world is that
service businesses can't scale because
15
:
you always have that CX component.
16
:
So talk to me about each individual
step, like where your challenges
17
:
were, if you can remember that far
back, it was CX always a component.
18
:
Of it, or did you wait it more in
one stage of growth versus another?
19
:
And how did you navigate through that?
20
:
I would say we you always need
to do good work people ask,
21
:
like, why is Hawkins so successful?
22
:
It's because frankly, 99 percent of
marketers have no idea what they're doing,
23
:
and so it's not hard to, compete with a
bunch of charlatans, when people come in
24
:
and work with us, they're like, Oh, wow.
25
:
You actually deliver what you say you're
going to the fact that's a novel idea is
26
:
crazy, when I talk to a lot of the new
agency owners, a lot of times they don't
27
:
actually know anything about marketing.
28
:
There's no barrier to
entry to start an agency.
29
:
They see a Tai Lopez video and
they go, Oh, I can start one too.
30
:
And then they see, we talked about
this before getting on, but like
31
:
someone driving a Lamborghini
and talking about their agency.
32
:
And it's Oh, that could be me.
33
:
I was like Whoa, Whoa.
34
:
You forgot the key ingredient here.
35
:
You need to actually know what
you're doing in marketing.
36
:
That's important.
37
:
I know that there's no barrier.
38
:
It's crazy to me that need a license
to cut hair or actually deliver
39
:
milk in the U S but you don't need
a license to manage half a billion
40
:
dollars in marketing budgets.
41
:
It's absurd to me, but here we are.
42
:
That has been one of
the biggest challenges.
43
:
And that's where I see a
lot of agencies struggle.
44
:
That's number one.
45
:
It's like you're churning through
clients because you're not doing good
46
:
work and you can only keep up so fast.
47
:
At some point you hit.
48
:
You can only bring in so much business
and you're losing it all the back door
49
:
and you hit this, equilibrium where
you can't grow the business your
50
:
sales can't keep up with your churn
and that is a rough business to run.
51
:
And that's why you see a lot
of burnout and agency owners.
52
:
You see a lot of plateaus like that's
number one, if you're not able to keep
53
:
your business now, that being said, we
deal with churn too, because we also work
54
:
with small and medium businesses that
they, by nature are all over the place.
55
:
And so regardless of how well
we're doing a lot of times,
56
:
small and medium businesses.
57
:
Are shifting.
58
:
So if that's, let's assume you're doing
good work and that's, table stakes, the
59
:
next piece is having that sales funnel to
replace that business and to keep growing.
60
:
And I'd say that's an important piece
that I know we've really nailed in terms
61
:
of we've been able to grow a lot because
we're able to, drink our own punch.
62
:
Turns out we know how to do marketing.
63
:
So we market ourselves and it works.
64
:
And then the last piece of that I
think people miss is the margins.
65
:
lot of people don't understand the
importance of having decent margins on
66
:
your agency so that you can reinvest
in marketing sales so that you can
67
:
invest in the future so that you can
invest in growth and hire people and
68
:
have some bandwidth because a lot of
people don't think about that ahead
69
:
of time and they end up a slave to
their own business because they're
70
:
paying their people way too much.
71
:
Like we saw it in the
Rick great resignation.
72
:
We refused to pay these rates that we
were getting competitors paying because
73
:
we knew it didn't pencil for the business.
74
:
We're like, Hey, if I get it, if you're
going to make three times as much money
75
:
in another company, go hope it cope.
76
:
It lasts six months and you've
got a year and a half of pay.
77
:
Like I get it, leave, but
we're not going to match that.
78
:
we have our MNA side.
79
:
We look at hundreds of agencies books
throughout the year, if not thousands.
80
:
And there are a lot that ended up
giving these raises and promotions
81
:
and paying people too much.
82
:
Now they can't run a profitable
agency because there's no way that
83
:
they can charge clients enough
to then build that person out
84
:
enough to actually make any money.
85
:
And so margins, marketing, and client
retention, I'd say, are the three.
86
:
Now, client retention, again, servicing
them well and communicating with
87
:
them well are the two biggest things.
88
:
Communication, I think, actually
trumps actually doing good marketing.
89
:
If you're good at communicating
and aligning and talking to your
90
:
clients, you'll keep them longer.
91
:
We've seen this in the data constantly.
92
:
If we're good at communicating and talking
to our clients, they're going to stay
93
:
a lot longer regardless of performance.
94
:
And so that's key there.
95
:
And then if you go over those three
things, I think you're actually
96
:
going to be doing all right.
97
:
Y'all, this is maybe the most
important thing that's ever
98
:
been said on perpetual traffic.
99
:
Hey, so if you're listening to this
and you're an agency owner, honestly,
100
:
if you're a business owner, stop
the car, pull over, write this down.
101
:
Communication is more
important than good marketing.
102
:
communication is more important than
deliverable, and I've seen this too.
103
:
My biggest fail point in early stage
at Google Ads, we were phenomenal.
104
:
We crushed life.
105
:
But we spent so much time,
we're deep, dark, cave dwelling,
106
:
nocturnal, over caffeinated
engineers that like to work at night.
107
:
And so we're sitting there really
doing the work, but not telling the
108
:
client we were doing the work, and
the client was always pissy with us.
109
:
And then we got really good
at communication, and they
110
:
preferred that to the good work.
111
:
I can do C minus work and good
communication and rather have that than
112
:
A plus work and B minus communication.
113
:
It's so critical.
114
:
Build that into the fabric
and ethos of your business.
115
:
It's important to understand as human
nature, we use logic to justify emotions.
116
:
If I feel good about you, I'm
going to find a reason why I
117
:
want to keep working with you.
118
:
If I don't feel good about you,
I'm going to find a reason why
119
:
I shouldn't be working with you.
120
:
And so making sure you like the
communication side plays to that emotion.
121
:
Why are people hiring you?
122
:
Because they don't want to manage this.
123
:
It's a bandwidth or expertise thing.
124
:
They either need bandwidth because
they don't have enough time to manage
125
:
all their marketing, even if they're
an expert, or they need expertise
126
:
because they're not an expert.
127
:
So one way or another, you need to satiate
that desire to be like, I need help.
128
:
And so they need to feel like
you're that one, that you're
129
:
better at doing this than they are.
130
:
You have taken this off their plate.
131
:
And you are the expert and you
are helping them save time.
132
:
And if you don't fulfill that,
you're out and they're going
133
:
to find a reason to be out.
134
:
Dude.
135
:
That's another writer downer.
136
:
Agencies are banned with your expertise.
137
:
That's it.
138
:
Or actually we always talk about
bandwidth expertise or a punching bag.
139
:
Some people just want to
hire someone to yell at.
140
:
that's a little bit of expertise though.
141
:
I need you to know how to take a punch.
142
:
Yeah.
143
:
Touche.
144
:
That's fine.
145
:
That it's even if you're not getting
the success, it's having the enthusiasm.
146
:
And the idea is to say, all right we tried
this didn't work, but here's what we're
147
:
going to do next because we actually care.
148
:
And it's like the thing that ends
up being the real linchpin for
149
:
retention is that these guys just
give a shit, like they actually care
150
:
about what it is that I'm doing.
151
:
Here.
152
:
you can infuse that in your smaller
agency, that's one of the keys
153
:
to successes is what I'm hearing.
154
:
How do you do that, Eric?
155
:
What specific systems do you have in
place to process size communications?
156
:
There's something like that at
Hawk, or is it just I hire smart
157
:
people that know how to do this?
158
:
No, we have a ton of process to it.
159
:
And we have a whole AI system
that monitors our client
160
:
communications and flags.
161
:
When we flag correlations between
when we lose clients and what the
162
:
communication was like, and so that
we can actually say for example, we
163
:
thought apologies would be a bad sign.
164
:
If we're saying, I'm sorry, and our
communication will ship, we screwed up.
165
:
And so we monitored all these apologies
that were going out and then we monitored
166
:
how the clients retained and we found
actually apologizing did the opposite.
167
:
When we take ownership and
apologize, clients were like, Oh,
168
:
you actually took ownership and we
can trust you because you actually.
169
:
Owned it that actually had a positive
effect on the relationship, even though
170
:
we were apologizing because we made
a mistake or something happened, the
171
:
fact that we just apologized actually
retained clients better, even though we
172
:
thought it'd have the opposite effect,
which meant, so we're apologizing.
173
:
We did something wrong.
174
:
We're going to lose a client.
175
:
It was the opposite.
176
:
So it's things like that we actually
monitor using AI now that allows
177
:
us to actually See what is causing
us to lose clients and your tech,
178
:
or is that something we can go by?
179
:
I don't know if it's public yet.
180
:
I can't share it yet, but it's a
friend of my co founders that we
181
:
installed and it's pretty cool tech.
182
:
It's not being used much in
the agency world, but if I
183
:
can, I'll follow up with that.
184
:
Dude.
185
:
We'll pimp it out all to death cause
I'd be the very first public customer.
186
:
That sounds amazing.
187
:
. It's not even sentiment analysis because
not giving us a dashboard of here's
188
:
all the sentiment of your clients.
189
:
It's literally like these things
were said heads up or when
190
:
we set up all the triggers.
191
:
So like we haven't responded to
a client in 24 hours is a trigger
192
:
which we know is kryptonite.
193
:
We're not responsive game over.
194
:
And so now we have a trigger to let us
know if an email is et cetera that then
195
:
pings the person goes, Hey, heads up.
196
:
Yeah.
197
:
This person hasn't been responding
to you need to get on top of
So talk to me about that stair step of growth for agency
2
:owners that are listening here.
3
:, I think a lot of them are sort
of stuck at individual levels.
4
:Like it's always, I don't know who
said it, but it's every time you three
5
:X, you basically everything breaks
if not in and around that point.
6
:So zero to a hundred thousand to 300, 000
to a million it just goes on from there.
7
:One of the things that.
8
:I think a lot of agency owners really
struggle with is that CX component is
9
:that customer satisfaction component?
10
:And where do you double down on
that in that evolution of growth?
11
:Which is a challenge because
this is a service based business.
12
:And, going back to Customs original
premise, which is obviously not
13
:accurate based upon your success and
the success of the Baines of the world.
14
:And the McKinsey's of the world is that
service businesses can't scale because
15
:you always have that CX component.
16
:So talk to me about each individual
step, like where your challenges
17
:were, if you can remember that far
back, it was CX always a component.
18
:Of it, or did you wait it more in
one stage of growth versus another?
19
:And how did you navigate through that?
20
:I would say we you always need
to do good work people ask,
21
:like, why is Hawkins so successful?
22
:It's because frankly, 99 percent of
marketers have no idea what they're doing,
23
:and so it's not hard to, compete with a
bunch of charlatans, when people come in
24
:and work with us, they're like, Oh, wow.
25
:You actually deliver what you say you're
going to the fact that's a novel idea is
26
:crazy, when I talk to a lot of the new
agency owners, a lot of times they don't
27
:actually know anything about marketing.
28
:There's no barrier to
entry to start an agency.
29
:They see a Tai Lopez video and
they go, Oh, I can start one too.
30
:And then they see, we talked about
this before getting on, but like
31
:someone driving a Lamborghini
and talking about their agency.
32
:And it's Oh, that could be me.
33
:I was like Whoa, Whoa.
34
:You forgot the key ingredient here.
35
:You need to actually know what
you're doing in marketing.
36
:That's important.
37
:I know that there's no barrier.
38
:It's crazy to me that need a license
to cut hair or actually deliver
39
:milk in the U S but you don't need
a license to manage half a billion
40
:dollars in marketing budgets.
41
:It's absurd to me, but here we are.
42
:That has been one of
the biggest challenges.
43
:And that's where I see a
lot of agencies struggle.
44
:That's number one.
45
:It's like you're churning through
clients because you're not doing good
46
:work and you can only keep up so fast.
47
:At some point you hit.
48
:You can only bring in so much business
and you're losing it all the back door
49
:and you hit this, equilibrium where
you can't grow the business your
50
:sales can't keep up with your churn
and that is a rough business to run.
51
:And that's why you see a lot
of burnout and agency owners.
52
:You see a lot of plateaus like that's
number one, if you're not able to keep
53
:your business now, that being said, we
deal with churn too, because we also work
54
:with small and medium businesses that
they, by nature are all over the place.
55
:And so regardless of how well
we're doing a lot of times,
56
:small and medium businesses.
57
:Are shifting.
58
:So if that's, let's assume you're doing
good work and that's, table stakes, the
59
:next piece is having that sales funnel to
replace that business and to keep growing.
60
:And I'd say that's an important piece
that I know we've really nailed in terms
61
:of we've been able to grow a lot because
we're able to, drink our own punch.
62
:Turns out we know how to do marketing.
63
:So we market ourselves and it works.
64
:And then the last piece of that I
think people miss is the margins.
65
:lot of people don't understand the
importance of having decent margins on
66
:your agency so that you can reinvest
in marketing sales so that you can
67
:invest in the future so that you can
invest in growth and hire people and
68
:have some bandwidth because a lot of
people don't think about that ahead
69
:of time and they end up a slave to
their own business because they're
70
:paying their people way too much.
71
:Like we saw it in the
Rick great resignation.
72
:We refused to pay these rates that we
were getting competitors paying because
73
:we knew it didn't pencil for the business.
74
:We're like, Hey, if I get it, if you're
going to make three times as much money
75
:in another company, go hope it cope.
76
:It lasts six months and you've
got a year and a half of pay.
77
:Like I get it, leave, but
we're not going to match that.
78
:we have our MNA side.
79
:We look at hundreds of agencies books
throughout the year, if not thousands.
80
:And there are a lot that ended up
giving these raises and promotions
81
:and paying people too much.
82
:Now they can't run a profitable
agency because there's no way that
83
:they can charge clients enough
to then build that person out
84
:enough to actually make any money.
85
:And so margins, marketing, and client
retention, I'd say, are the three.
86
:Now, client retention, again, servicing
them well and communicating with
87
:them well are the two biggest things.
88
:Communication, I think, actually
trumps actually doing good marketing.
89
:If you're good at communicating
and aligning and talking to your
90
:clients, you'll keep them longer.
91
:We've seen this in the data constantly.
92
:If we're good at communicating and talking
to our clients, they're going to stay
93
:a lot longer regardless of performance.
94
:And so that's key there.
95
:And then if you go over those three
things, I think you're actually
96
:going to be doing all right.
97
:Y'all, this is maybe the most
important thing that's ever
98
:been said on perpetual traffic.
99
:Hey, so if you're listening to this
and you're an agency owner, honestly,
100
:if you're a business owner, stop
the car, pull over, write this down.
101
:Communication is more
important than good marketing.
102
:communication is more important than
deliverable, and I've seen this too.
103
:My biggest fail point in early stage
at Google Ads, we were phenomenal.
104
:We crushed life.
105
:But we spent so much time,
we're deep, dark, cave dwelling,
106
:nocturnal, over caffeinated
engineers that like to work at night.
107
:And so we're sitting there really
doing the work, but not telling the
108
:client we were doing the work, and
the client was always pissy with us.
109
:And then we got really good
at communication, and they
110
:preferred that to the good work.
111
:I can do C minus work and good
communication and rather have that than
112
:A plus work and B minus communication.
113
:It's so critical.
114
:Build that into the fabric
and ethos of your business.
115
:It's important to understand as human
nature, we use logic to justify emotions.
116
:If I feel good about you, I'm
going to find a reason why I
117
:want to keep working with you.
118
:If I don't feel good about you,
I'm going to find a reason why
119
:I shouldn't be working with you.
120
:And so making sure you like the
communication side plays to that emotion.
121
:Why are people hiring you?
122
:Because they don't want to manage this.
123
:It's a bandwidth or expertise thing.
124
:They either need bandwidth because
they don't have enough time to manage
125
:all their marketing, even if they're
an expert, or they need expertise
126
:because they're not an expert.
127
:So one way or another, you need to satiate
that desire to be like, I need help.
128
:And so they need to feel like
you're that one, that you're
129
:better at doing this than they are.
130
:You have taken this off their plate.
131
:And you are the expert and you
are helping them save time.
132
:And if you don't fulfill that,
you're out and they're going
133
:to find a reason to be out.
134
:Dude.
135
:That's another writer downer.
136
:Agencies are banned with your expertise.
137
:That's it.
138
:Or actually we always talk about
bandwidth expertise or a punching bag.
139
:Some people just want to
hire someone to yell at.
140
:that's a little bit of expertise though.
141
:I need you to know how to take a punch.
142
:Yeah.
143
:Touche.
144
:That's fine.
145
:That it's even if you're not getting
the success, it's having the enthusiasm.
146
:And the idea is to say, all right we tried
this didn't work, but here's what we're
147
:going to do next because we actually care.
148
:And it's like the thing that ends
up being the real linchpin for
149
:retention is that these guys just
give a shit, like they actually care
150
:about what it is that I'm doing.
151
:Here.
152
:you can infuse that in your smaller
agency, that's one of the keys
153
:to successes is what I'm hearing.
154
:How do you do that, Eric?
155
:What specific systems do you have in
place to process size communications?
156
:There's something like that at
Hawk, or is it just I hire smart
157
:people that know how to do this?
158
:No, we have a ton of process to it.
159
:And we have a whole AI system
that monitors our client
160
:communications and flags.
161
:When we flag correlations between
when we lose clients and what the
162
:communication was like, and so that
we can actually say for example, we
163
:thought apologies would be a bad sign.
164
:If we're saying, I'm sorry, and our
communication will ship, we screwed up.
165
:And so we monitored all these apologies
that were going out and then we monitored
166
:how the clients retained and we found
actually apologizing did the opposite.
167
:When we take ownership and
apologize, clients were like, Oh,
168
:you actually took ownership and we
can trust you because you actually.
169
:Owned it that actually had a positive
effect on the relationship, even though
170
:we were apologizing because we made
a mistake or something happened, the
171
:fact that we just apologized actually
retained clients better, even though we
172
:thought it'd have the opposite effect,
which meant, so we're apologizing.
173
:We did something wrong.
174
:We're going to lose a client.
175
:It was the opposite.
176
:So it's things like that we actually
monitor using AI now that allows
177
:us to actually See what is causing
us to lose clients and your tech,
178
:or is that something we can go by?
179
:I don't know if it's public yet.
180
:I can't share it yet, but it's a
friend of my co founders that we
181
:installed and it's pretty cool tech.
182
:It's not being used much in
the agency world, but if I
183
:can, I'll follow up with that.
184
:Dude.
185
:We'll pimp it out all to death cause
I'd be the very first public customer.
186
:That sounds amazing.
187
:. It's not even sentiment analysis because
not giving us a dashboard of here's
188
:all the sentiment of your clients.
189
:It's literally like these things
were said heads up or when
190
:we set up all the triggers.
191
:So like we haven't responded to
a client in 24 hours is a trigger
192
:which we know is kryptonite.
193
:We're not responsive game over.
194
:And so now we have a trigger to let us
know if an email is et cetera that then
195
:pings the person goes, Hey, heads up.
196
:Yeah.
197
:This person hasn't been responding
to you need to get on top of
