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Growth Opportunities and The Art of Self-Delusion with Brent Perkins

Kasim sits down with Brent Perkins, serial entrepreneur, to talk about growth opportunities, the worst size a company can be, and Brent’s new book- Papercuts: The Art of Self-Delusion.

In this engaging conversation, they also explore the power of choice and free will and how it can be leveraged to achieve success.


Don't miss out on exclusive early access to podcasts and interviews, plus a free gift, before the public release of Papercuts: The Art of Self-Delusion in August 2023. Learn more at www.papercutssuck.com.


0:00 Growth Opportunities and The Art of Self Delusion with Brent Perkins

0:58 Papercuts: The Art of Self-Delusion

4:07 A truth is a fact and a belief blended together

7:49 Applying The Art of Self-Delusion in marketing

11:55 Where you can get a copy of Papercuts: The Art of Self-Delusion

18:27 Where to connect with Brent Perkins




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Transcript
Kasim:

Scott, I'm here with the day, the Google news.

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:

And today we're not talking

about Google at all.

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We're talking about growth

opportunities, the worst size

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a company could possibly be.

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And the art of self delusion here

with my buddy, Brent Perkins, Brent.

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I appreciate being here, man.

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Yeah, I'm happy to be here.

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Thanks.

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Yeah.

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You're one of my favorite people

that I met at front road dads.

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Or you were until I met you in person

and found that you were taller than me.

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Yeah, it was an obnoxious

thing for you to do.

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I don't know.

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It's so funny, man.

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you don't spend a lot of time

when you're I'm six, four.

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And so I just don't spend time

around people that are taller.

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And it's so jarring.

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And it reminds me like how people

must feel when they're around me.

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It's just, have this visceral, like,

you think you're better than me?

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Is that what's happening?

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Yeah.

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Sometimes.

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No, it's humbling, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I don't, I can't imagine how often

you run into it, given that you're.

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Just standard deviation above.

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Not what we're here to talk about.

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You wrote a book.

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I did.

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You wrote a book called Paper Cuts,

which by the way, I'm just going to

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share my screen because it's probably

the best book cover I think I've

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ever seen from a self published book.

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And that's usually my big pet peeve.

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I've self published both my

books and my covers are garbage,

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but this is like, who did this?

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Did you really?

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Yeah, I did it in mid journey

when that was all a big big,

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big thing back in January.

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I was playing around and that came

out and I was like I'm keeping this.

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Yeah.

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That's phenomenal.

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I love that you did that in

mid journey too, because now

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everybody listening or watching

is going to fall in love with you.

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What an amazing tool that is, but

I think it's, really compelling.

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That's the type of thing that

would make me stop scrolling.

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Why is it called the art of self delusion?

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What about self delusion are we

specifically speaking towards here?

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Yeah.

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So really this book's about the choice we

don't step into daily maybe even higher

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level would be perspective, Shifting your

perspectives, which to do that, you're

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shifting, you're stepping into choice and

the delusion parts, of course, a little

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bit of play on words to have fun with

the book, but I really built a construct

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that shows inside of the book where.

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playing off of Einstein's that really

this world is an illusion, his statement

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he made that our interpretation of the

illusion is a delusion because, you

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might walk away, for instance, from this

podcast and maybe I was having a bad day

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and you're like, man, Brent sucked today.

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And then you talk to me and

you're like, Oh, you know what?

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I didn't see it.

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He didn't suck.

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He was just a melancholy because

of this happened and this happened

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and you shift your truth, right?

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Because truth is yours.

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And my truth is mine.

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I argue they're delusions

because we can alter them.

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We can shift them.

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We can change perspective.

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We can tweak them.

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So they're not real because

we can choose a different one.

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But if truth isn't real, it puts us

in a position of, and I'm going to

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accelerate logical sequence that's

going through my mind to the end

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result, which I think is nihilism.

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It's like, why am I not just running

around stealing whatever I want, treating

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people however, you know what I mean?

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Like, cause there's no truth.

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I can make it what I wanted.

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So where's the objective

principle based the confines

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within which I have to operate.

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Yeah, I guess, you need to start

from the basis that love is the

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underwriting energy to everything.

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So there is a core truth.

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There's like the objective truth

and then our delusion sit on

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top of whatever that might be.

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What I'm speaking to is

our interpretations of

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our experiences on Earth.

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I only can experience earth

time through my five senses.

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And the way I smell and like, if you and

I are drinking the same glass of wine

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and eating the same piece of chicken,

they taste and smell different to each

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other than they, I mean, there isn't a

truth about how they taste and smell.

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It just is through our own version of it.

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It's our interpretation of what that is.

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And those are our truths because

the truth is a fact and a belief.

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kind of blended together.

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Oh, I like that.

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A truth is a fact and a

belief blended together.

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How interesting.

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That's such an indictment.

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You know what I mean?

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Like it, you start to see

where truth becomes porous.

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So what does that mean then?

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Like, are we, do we need to walk

through life questioning everything we

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believe, or is there, is there a power

to this or is it a cautionary tale?

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No, it's, power because yes, curiosity

is arguably the best thing you

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could walk through life with because

there's nothing that's absolute.

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You walk outside and you can choose to

have on brown glasses, blue glasses,

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red glasses, you get to choose what

your lens is and none of them are wrong.

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How do you want to show up?

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And if you don't like it, if it's not

working, you change it, just shift it.

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It's always choice.

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So it's super empowering.

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I mean, you take it to one, you

swing the pendulum one direction and

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you start to get into manifestation

and that we create everything.

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But you swing it the other direction

and you get into straight victimhood.

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This book, the goal of it is to

pull people out of victimhood,

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that anything is possible.

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You just got to choose.

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You got to choose your perspective,

choose how you show up, choose

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what you want to believe.

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I really love that.

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And I think that the

whole concept of life.

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predicated on and by

choice is so empowering.

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It's also repellent.

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I think it's a really easy

thing to be very afraid of.

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And we, kind of sell victimhood.

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Now I saw this really interesting meme.

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it was so poignant.

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You know, those memes that capture you

and you're just like, God, whoever built

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this is just won the internet today.

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But it said something to the effect

of like in the twenties, we worshiped

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the party goer in the thirties.

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We worship the financier in the forties.

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We worship the soldier in the fifties.

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We worshiped the father in the

sixties was the rebel in the

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seventies was the lover in the eight.

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And I'm making these up, but

every decade was marked by, and

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then now we worship the victim.

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a contest.

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It's like who can out

victim the other person.

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And I don't know that I see

a, direct line of sight out

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of that, but maybe this is it.

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Maybe it's guys like you

writing books like this.

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I don't know the answer to that, Qasim.

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I see with my kids and social media.

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Yeah.

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So easy for them to get into victimhood.

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Or to, really, and part of that's

just a mental model where we're

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comparing ourselves, right?

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oh, I don't have what they have.

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Oh, I don't look like she or he looks on

like, I'm not traveling to where they are.

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We're in our own victimhood storyline.

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And choice says.

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No, no, I choose different.

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I choose not to sit in that place.

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I choose to not believe what I'm seeing

that they're putting on social media

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is the end all be all of everything.

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It's not real.

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Yeah, I love that, that like what you've

posited here is victimhood is rooted

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in comparison, which I've not thought

about, but that feels sound to me.

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That's what I see my kids struggle with.

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Yeah, dude, it's, I,

man, I struggle with it.

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I, I, I will default into victimhood if

I'm not, I probably do it all the time.

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And I don't even realize it,

but if I'm not careful, it's

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just such an easy place to sit.

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So, this is definitely the

most esoteric conversation

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we've ever had on this channel.

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Help me bring it down to, you're talking

to a bunch of entrepreneurs and marketers.

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Yep.

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Help them take this information

and then use it to make money.

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So this can go in a lot of directions,

but I mean, marketing's my background.

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I've started a bunch of companies.

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I spent 20 years, you know

running businesses with a, you

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know, marketing angle on it.

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You know, the last company we took

from ground up started, they had 50

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engineers and no marketing salespeople.

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That's why they, brought me into, tell

their story, build a brand around it.

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So really, I think.

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You know, for the marketing angle,

it's about how do we, how do

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we tell the story in a way that

doesn't step into victimhood, which

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everybody else, is capitalizing on.

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It's not the long tail battle, right?

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Victimhood is a short, quick

dopamine hit that you're going

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to get something fast with.

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If we move back into empowering

people, which is what choice

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is, it's about being empowered.

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And if we can tell our stories about our

products and our offerings in that way.

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Now we have long tail marketing again,

which is part of what I feel like we've

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stepped out of in the last 10 years.

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No, you're absolutely right.

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Everything's been a hundred percent

just like impulse by it's on both

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levels to what we sell the end consumer,

but what also marketers sell the

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business, the thing that I'm giving

you, isn't there is no long tail to it.

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It's just right now it's, it's

the sweets without the nutrition

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and marketing is storytelling.

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what do you do though, if you're the

only market or playing by the rules?

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So I'm the only market or not

falling into the victimhood

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background narrative timeline.

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And.

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Because I'm not using the clickbait, BS,

I get left behind in the short term, how

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do we buttress that person's resolve?

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It's like being the only guy

at the gym, not juicing, or the

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only kid in class, not cheating.

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It is and it isn't.

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You know, you and I were talking about

this earlier, which is curiosity.

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Curiosity doesn't play a role anymore.

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I don't, I go back to my kids because

they're the ones on TikTok all the time.

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it's less me than them, but.

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They're not asking other people

questions about the other people.

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It's always just about what can I do?

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Well, it's so selfish.

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So starting to get curious, people

want to talk about themselves.

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If we can start to ask questions

in the right way and get curious

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about other people, let their

stories come through in our own

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stories, that's still not happening.

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We're just pushing stories on

people saying, this is my story.

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You know, it should be appealing to you.

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It is appealing to you.

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Now go, go figure out how to

duplicate it in your own way

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versus, hey, what's your story?

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Let's get back to what's unique about you.

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And let's ask more questions.

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We're not asking enough questions.

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So there's, there's a way to

capitalize on the dopamine hit.

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But do it through

curiosity, just showing up.

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It's being present without

being selfishly present.

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I'm turning the lens around

on the, the, the narrative.

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I really like that too, which is

instead of telling you about my quick

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hitter story, I turn it around and

try to figure out what about you?

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Cause that's what everybody

wants to talk about, right?

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Like that's, that's, we go

back to Dale Carnegie now.

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And people are most interested in

themselves, and I don't think I lost

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on try to figuring out how to use these

platforms, and we know enough about

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them now it's time to go back to some

of the old school basics that works,

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but using the new school platforms.

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Yeah, there's, there's a lot of.

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Bill Gates has that quote automation

applied to an inefficient system

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just amplifies the inefficiency.

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And I think the echo chamber

that is the social media model

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has amplified the wrong message.

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And we all know it, but we're

on this runaway train and we

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can't, we have yet to stop it.

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And then here we are.

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So somebody wanted to read this book.

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It's not launched yet, right?

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We're in pre launch phase.

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It goes live August 10th, August 10th.

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And they can get an

ebook, soft copy audio.

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And you're doing the audio yourself.

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Yeah, which is great.

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I love it when authors read their own

work and then you especially because just

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because you're so fired up about this

I think that'd be, really cool to hear.

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And it's called paper cuts,

the art of self delusion.

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It's by Brent Perkins so August

10, make sure to you can pre order

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the book right now on Amazon.

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you can pre order the book.

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From your website, you can

on Amazon or you can just go

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follow along@papercutssuck.com.

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I love that.

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Paper cuts suck.com.

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And then you also do you do some

consulting ad hoc, right, Brett?

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I do, kind of find that sweet spot in

the five to $20 million companies that

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that have maybe grown too quickly or

They've been to product focused or been

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to something focused need a kind of a

holistic look to see how do we how do

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we keep the wheels on in a, healthy way.

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So, and you've been the CEO of

two eight figure businesses that

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look like nine figure businesses

because you're a marketer which is

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exactly what people should be doing.

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And we were talking about this

before we hit record, but that, that.

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That five to 10, I think into 20 million.

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I've always felt like when I watch

those organizations, they start to

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kind of hit their stride, but that five

to 10 is such an abysmal place to be.

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It's the worst size.

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You have all the big problems.

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Without any of the big solutions yet.

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Yeah.

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Can't really afford to invest big

money into, into anything that really

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works from a systemization standpoint.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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Well, and you're always lopsided too.

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You're usually really good at one

thing, you know, be it the product

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or the fulfillment or the sales, but

then everything else kind of sucks.

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Generally, I think, and tell me if this

has been your experience is because you're

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built around one, person, one wizard.

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I would say in general, that's, true.

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And that wizard is usually a

really good one trick pony.

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Yeah.

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That's funny.

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So my agency solutions eight, I think

we're the best Google ads in the world,

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but it's only because my business partner

is the best Google ads guy in the world.

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And now we've hired really well.

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I've got a phenomenal team, but you

know, that's, I think we'd be really

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well defined as a one trick pony.

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And we got, you know, we're sub 10

million gross revenue, but approaching.

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And I don't think we could get

to 20 just running Google Ads, or

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maybe that's a limiting belief.

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I think we'd have to branch out to

other channels or, you know, go a

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little deeper on the, customer journey.

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So where do you start

with a business like that?

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Like, you're my consultant.

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I hired you today.

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Where do we begin?

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Start with people.

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It always starts with people.

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Do you have the right

people in the right places?

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So the first, that's the first

way you can sink your ship.

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You're either overspending

or you're underspending or

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you're not empowering them.

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That's, that's your

biggest asset right there.

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Yeah.

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Do you do those personality profiles?

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You know, I've done a lot of them.

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The one, if there is one, my favorite

is the culture index because it

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it gets out of just personality.

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It starts to get into kind of innately.

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How do you show up and then how do

you modify your, it's behavior based.

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So what behavior do you

show up with at work?

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And what behavior do you show up

with innately in life and how are you

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modifying your behavior to show up at

work and then it shows kind of do you

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have the fortitude or the energy bank to

be able to modify what you need to do?

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So, for instance, I

suck at details, right?

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I am a hard charging, hit the gas,

get shit done type of guy from

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like a I can think five years out.

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I can see the big picture, but

you want me to go fill out forms

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and do details and I'm horrible.

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But at work, I know I have

to do some of that stuff.

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So like my profile at work shows

that I can get details done to

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like call it a 30 percent level.

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But it's enough.

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It's enough for me to get the job done,

but on my profile, like my natural

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profile, I'm 0 percent that's interesting.

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Those behavioral pieces are what I

always want to know, because I want to

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know, hey, what's easy for somebody?

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What's natural?

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How do they show up in a way

where it's like, this feels great.

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I love coming to work because it's just

easy versus Oh, it's so I'm pulling teeth.

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I'm like, I don't, I can't wait.

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It's five o'clock.

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Cool.

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I'm out.

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we don't want that.

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I think we did.

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I'm looking at culture index now.

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I don't remember if this was it I've done

five or six in my entrepreneurial career,

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where you bring in the consultant, you

pay them a whole bunch of money, and

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then they go test everybody and they come

back and they have the recommendations.

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I remember one gentleman in

particular, who was great at this.

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He tested my entire team and I had

one young lady who worked for me.

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He was the worst employee I've

ever had in my entire life.

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And I thought it was me or because

she on paper looked so good.

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She came from a really

trusted referral source.

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It was a niche specific need.

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I'm trying to veil her identity here.

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, and I had nobody else.

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And so I was desperate to make her work.

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And so in my mind, I was like, it's me,

it's the situation, it's this, it's that.

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And then he went and he did, I

don't know if it was culture index

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:

or not, but tested everybody.

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And he came back and he

said, you know, who is Sally?

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And I'm like, why do you ask?

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And he's like, cause she

does not belong Here at all.

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And he was able to just

spot it like instantly.

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And that was so empowering to hear

and to feel like, Oh, thank God.

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:

Yeah.

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:

But it's hard when you're

inside of it to know that.

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:

Yeah.

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:

I mean, what's interesting too, is,

is those employees, they may be lying

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:

to themselves, but they know too,

something empowering about sitting

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:

down, you know, and I imagine you do

this because I know you want to know

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:

you're just a great, a great guy and

a great manager, a great boss, but

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:

to be able to tell somebody, Hey.

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You're amazing at this

piece, whatever it is.

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We don't have that here.

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I need to help you find this

because when you land in this,

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:

you're going to love life.

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You're going to love showing, you're

going to love waking up, putting your

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:

clothes on and going to work every day.

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:

I imagine you don't.

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And I don't want that for you.

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And I don't want that for me.

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:

Yeah.

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I'm going to go back and listen

to this recording because

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it was really well stated.

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I don't know that I am good at

those conversations anymore.

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I think I used to be.

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I got a little jaded Brent,

so I need to come back to the

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:

empathy that you just gave me.

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:

Where can people connect with you?

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Really paper cuts suck, gets

you into that's your sandpit.

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:

Yeah.

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That's my sandpit.

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That'll launch you into wherever

we're lots of other things.

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So it's a great place to start.

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You know, I realized the paper

cuts book is, a little esoteric,

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but what, what it can do mostly.

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I mean, speaking from, I wrote it

for myself, you know, ex CEO who will

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probably be a CEO again, one day, how

do you show up your best in a way where

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you trust yourself so you don't have

to question decisions you're making?

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Like, that's what the power of this

book is, is how do you step into choice

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:

and integrity and learn how to love

and trust you because then you show up

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:

for your business in a way that you've,

you've probably never showed up before.

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I really love that.

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:

I love the esoteric conversations too.

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:

I want to have more of these because.

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:

You know, it's the difference in,

I just shot a video on this and

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:

nobody watched it, which made me mad.

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:

But, are you familiar with Stephen Covey's

Personality Ethic versus Character Ethic?

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:

Yeah.

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:

So, this is Character Ethic discussion.

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:

All the other videos I shoot are

Personality Ethic discussion, but

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that's what people want to watch.

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This is what I want to talk about.

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So, I'm going to go figure

out how to slowly evolve.

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The conversation Brant, I

appreciate you being here, man.

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I appreciate you just being every time we

connect, I take something away from that.

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:

That's not pandering by the way.

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:

I really mean it every time you're on a

call, even when you're quiet, like you'll

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:

pipe up and say one thing and I'll be

like, well, that made the call for me.

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:

So.

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That's my feedback for you today.

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If you're watching or

listening, go to papercutssuck.

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:

com Pre order the e book.

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:

If you catch this after August 10th, you

can buy the e book, the print version.

424

:

I buy print of everything, by the way,

because I like writing in books now.

425

:

Which I know is sacrilegious,

but it helps with my retention.

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:

You can listen listen to our boy

Brent Perkins support an author.

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:

If you want some consulting, it

sounds like he's an assassin.

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:

And I imagine they can connect

with you by going to 3xbold.

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:

com.

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:

The number, the paper cuts suck there too.

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:

Yeah.

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:

Okay.

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:

All roads lead back to paper cuts up.

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:

Cool.

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:

I shoot a video every day.

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Like comment, subscribe.

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:

I love y'all.

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:

I'll talk to you later.

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:

Peace.

About the Podcast

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