Mastering the Highs and Lows of Paid Traffic for eCommerce Success

Kasim: 00:00:11

Scott's from the day the Google news and I'm excited about today's

2

: 00:00:14

topic because it's one that terrifies

me and it probably terrifies you

3

: 00:00:17

too, even if you don't realize it

I'm joined with my new buddy, James

4

: 00:00:21

Crane, James, thanks for being here.

5

: 00:00:23

No, no problem at all.

6

: 00:00:24

And James, I think like When you

described what it is that you do, I

7

: 00:00:29

immediately thought to myself, man,

I wish somebody did that for me.

8

: 00:00:33

for my listener who wasn't there during

our prerecord, James is an e commerce

9

: 00:00:37

consultant that choppers into e com

businesses, tries to learn everything

10

: 00:00:40

that he can about the business, top

to bottom, left to right, goes as

11

: 00:00:43

deep as he can, and then works towards

optimizing , whatever the business needs.

12

: 00:00:46

And so that could be visibility

or CRO or backend or, wherever he

13

: 00:00:50

sees The chance for improvement.

14

: 00:00:51

How did I do there?

15

: 00:00:52

Is that the way you describe it?

16

: 00:00:53

Yeah, pretty much.

17

: 00:00:54

Improving product offering,

working out where the gaps are,

18

: 00:00:57

trying to fix problems, really.

19

: 00:00:59

So just kind of choppers into

the specialist works really

20

: 00:01:01

close with e commerce brands.

21

: 00:01:02

Currently accepting new clients.

22

: 00:01:04

Yeah, definitely.

23

: 00:01:04

So if you're an econ brand and you sound

like you want somebody who, does what

24

: 00:01:07

James does reach out to him, I'll include

his contact info in the description

25

: 00:01:10

of this video, James shot me an email

he just had an idea for a video and

26

: 00:01:13

I was like, dude, that's brilliant.

27

: 00:01:14

Let's do it together.

28

: 00:01:15

And the idea I'll try to put it in a

nutshell, James, and then I'll ask you

29

: 00:01:18

to expand upon it, but it's basically,

what do we come business owners?

30

: 00:01:22

In order to contend with the feast

or famine that is specifically paid

31

: 00:01:26

traffic, but just digital marketing in

general, because if you've been running

32

: 00:01:30

e com campaigns for 48 hours, you know

that there are these insane peaks and

33

: 00:01:35

valleys, and they're inexplicable.

34

: 00:01:36

, it feels like when you're in

a valley, it feels like you're

35

: 00:01:39

doing something horribly wrong.

36

: 00:01:40

And when you're at a peak, it

feels like you're a genius.

37

: 00:01:41

And neither is true, by the way, like

both of those things are incorrect.

38

: 00:01:45

How did I do defining the problem there?

39

: 00:01:48

pretty bang on.

40

: 00:01:48

I mean, we all dream of that level playing

field where you take your entire year's

41

: 00:01:52

revenue and divide it into 365 days.

42

: 00:01:55

So, you know, what's coming

in every day of the week.

43

: 00:01:57

But the reality is that's not the case.

44

: 00:01:59

And you can really go from those

highs, like you say, to those lows.

45

: 00:02:02

And there's a big temptation to make some

dangerous decisions when those lows hit.

46

: 00:02:07

it's hard to, to mitigate

those really, I guess.

47

: 00:02:10

So a question that maybe is a little more

marketing philosophy or even conspiracy

48

: 00:02:14

theory before we get into the specifics.

49

: 00:02:16

why do you think that happens?

50

: 00:02:18

Is it algorithmic?

51

: 00:02:19

Is it market?

52

: 00:02:20

Is it a combination of both?

53

: 00:02:21

I think it's a combination of both.

54

: 00:02:22

I think even sometimes it can

be seasonality that you don't

55

: 00:02:26

intrinsically understand that

is part of your marketplace.

56

: 00:02:29

And again, that's more

dangerous for the newcomer.

57

: 00:02:31

Because like obvious things like

seasonality can be you sell snowshoes

58

: 00:02:35

and it's the first day of summer.

59

: 00:02:37

Your sales are probably going to tank

and it's pretty obvious why, right?

60

: 00:02:41

But Say for instance, you sell takeaway

packaging and you don't realize it,

61

: 00:02:46

but a big portion of your customer

base might be selling to schools.

62

: 00:02:49

If there's some holiday starts,

your sales are going to decline.

63

: 00:02:53

You may not necessarily know why,

or it might just be the weather.

64

: 00:02:56

And those sort of things do

happen behind the scenes.

65

: 00:02:58

And I feel that's

probably a big part of it.

66

: 00:03:00

Obviously, you've got general market

trends, such as a financial crisis,

67

: 00:03:04

so on and so forth, energy prices

that people worry about, and that

68

: 00:03:07

might cause a general depression.

69

: 00:03:08

But the big swings, I think, generally

tend to be, in my opinion, at least,

70

: 00:03:12

behind the scenes are seasonality driven

and elements to the marketplace you

71

: 00:03:17

might not immediately understand or

know why they happen down the chain.

72

: 00:03:20

Can I tell you two stories?

73

: 00:03:22

Go for story number one, we had a client

that sold among other things, but one

74

: 00:03:26

of their core product offerings was

a special type of industrial cleaner

75

: 00:03:29

that was meant to, that was meant to

clean a very specific types of metal.

76

: 00:03:32

And the, the implementation of which

was mostly for like machining shops.

77

: 00:03:38

In this story, it gets so interesting

because we ran into this, they

78

: 00:03:41

had this huge sales decline,

couldn't figure out how or why.

79

: 00:03:44

And It wasn't even us

that, cracked the code.

80

: 00:03:47

They, they had a third party

consultant that came in to help

81

: 00:03:49

them clean up their emails.

82

: 00:03:51

And the person came in to clean up their

emails, they had a huge email database

83

: 00:03:54

and they hadn't cleaned it in forever.

84

: 00:03:55

And so they were just trying to like

figure out how to solve the problem

85

: 00:03:57

across all levels of analysis.

86

: 00:03:59

And this email guru Asked what's

the deal with great clips.

87

: 00:04:03

And they're like, what do you mean?

88

: 00:04:03

and she was like, you have a ton of people

from great clips in your email database.

89

: 00:04:08

and they ended up tracking all the

way back that great clips is a massive

90

: 00:04:11

franchise, by the way, it's like 42,

000 franchise owners or something.

91

: 00:04:14

At one point in one of the great

clip member forums, somebody said,

92

: 00:04:18

in order to clean your clippers,

we found that this solution works

93

: 00:04:22

really, really, really well.

94

: 00:04:23

they, somebody mentioned this

industrial cleaner that's meant for

95

: 00:04:26

machining shops, but also apparently.

96

: 00:04:28

cleans clippers.

97

: 00:04:29

that one mentioned got added to

the great clips SOP as far as like

98

: 00:04:32

the products that they were buying.

99

: 00:04:33

And all these haircut, 42, 000,

not all 42, 000, but a ton of

100

: 00:04:36

them were buying this stuff.

101

: 00:04:38

when COVID landed all the,

haircut places closed.

102

: 00:04:41

And so they stopped buying

everything, including the solution.

103

: 00:04:43

But what I thought was so interesting.

104

: 00:04:45

is they had no idea for, ostensibly years

that a bunch of hair salons were buying

105

: 00:04:52

their product because they never asked.

106

: 00:04:53

They never asked.

107

: 00:04:54

They never checked.

108

: 00:04:54

They were as shocked

as everybody else was.

109

: 00:04:56

And if you're watching this, don't

assume, you know, who your customers

110

: 00:05:00

don't assume, you know, who it

is that's on the receiving end,

111

: 00:05:03

because Unless you ask, you're never

really going to have the full view.

112

: 00:05:07

And that's all they

needed to do was just ask.

113

: 00:05:08

And that's so easy.

114

: 00:05:09

It's post purchase survey

follow up email NPS scoring.

115

: 00:05:12

But I just thought that that was

like the best, most poignant example

116

: 00:05:15

I've ever heard of, Oh, you have

no idea who your customer is.

117

: 00:05:19

It's amazing.

118

: 00:05:19

And it is often those small things

that you find out from like, like

119

: 00:05:23

the email trail that you suddenly

go, This is why that happened.

120

: 00:05:26

Yeah.

121

: 00:05:27

Which is funny.

122

: 00:05:27

Cause I didn't, I mean I've got 16,

000 people on my email database.

123

: 00:05:30

Which is funny.

124

: 00:05:30

we just wiped it clean and we got.

125

: 00:05:32

we started over and, I haven't

looked at that or segmented it.

126

: 00:05:35

I'm such a massive

hypocrite, but weird story.

127

: 00:05:37

Number two on the same topic that you

offered me and my business partner,

128

: 00:05:40

John, talk about this all the time.

129

: 00:05:41

At solutions eight, when we're doing lead

generation, now that's not e commerce.

130

: 00:05:44

But I'd be interested in your

opinions on this because I think

131

: 00:05:46

that , the two play together.

132

: 00:05:47

We run lead gen campaigns for

ourselves and what we've noticed,

133

: 00:05:51

and this has happened for years

is all of a sudden I'll get like.

134

: 00:05:55

a pet supplement company, and

then I'll get another one.

135

: 00:05:59

So I'll get two pet supplement

companies back to back, and then

136

: 00:06:02

I'll get like travel broker,

and then I'll get another one.

137

: 00:06:05

and there's this weird theme where when

I get a lead from a specific industry

138

: 00:06:10

or vertical, I'm almost guaranteed to

get another lead from that vertical.

139

: 00:06:15

People talk.

140

: 00:06:17

Is that it?

141

: 00:06:17

So, man, gosh, because we go back and

forth, like, I keep thinking, is Google

142

: 00:06:21

trying to match based off of such

specific demographic and psychographic

143

: 00:06:25

profiling factors that when it sees a

conversion from somebody that matches

144

: 00:06:29

an avatar, it's just that much more

likely to give me that same avatar?

145

: 00:06:33

And if that's the case, maybe

that carries over into the

146

: 00:06:35

Feaster family we see with Ecom.

147

: 00:06:37

Yeah, yeah, you're probably

right, and it's a bit of both.

148

: 00:06:40

I mean, I know from embedding myself into

certain industries, You know, a lot of

149

: 00:06:44

people in those industries after a few

years and you then have relationships

150

: 00:06:49

and find out who's using this for that

and who's getting their stuff from where,

151

: 00:06:52

and that dialogue can be quite casual.

152

: 00:06:54

Even competitors will have

relationships with each other.

153

: 00:06:57

So if they don't see that company is a

massive threat to them, they're maybe

154

: 00:07:00

in a different town or a different

city where they're not on each other's,

155

: 00:07:03

like turning on each other's toes, it's

possibly could just be word of mouth.

156

: 00:07:07

You struggle to find that out.

157

: 00:07:09

The risks of the feast or famine.

158

: 00:07:11

So first bullet point I have for me, you

hear is how this can be really dangerous

159

: 00:07:14

for newcomers because you induce panic,

you make horrible rash decisions.

160

: 00:07:17

So talk to specifically our newbies

prep them, like let's coach them

161

: 00:07:21

on, Hey, here's what to expect.

162

: 00:07:22

And this is why it's fine.

163

: 00:07:23

going from experience here when I

first started out, you'd be having,

164

: 00:07:28

sales start to climb gradually, you

notice these trends, you're selling,

165

: 00:07:31

I don't know, 10 items a day.

166

: 00:07:32

It's great.

167

: 00:07:32

You're all happy.

168

: 00:07:33

And then all of a sudden it stops and you

have a day where the phone doesn't ring.

169

: 00:07:38

There's no sales going out the door and

you kind of like, what did I do wrong?

170

: 00:07:42

Now there's plenty of things you can do.

171

: 00:07:45

Even further wrong at that point, such

as immediately making changes to your

172

: 00:07:48

pricing, just going wild and assuming

it's something along those lines that

173

: 00:07:52

say suddenly need to have like an offer

that's going to attract more people in or

174

: 00:07:55

something or even changing website teams.

175

: 00:07:58

I've seen people do that.

176

: 00:07:59

they get a decline and they're like,

I just need to rebrand my site.

177

: 00:08:02

It, it must be something to do with

that without really even researching

178

: 00:08:04

into it, which is completely crazy.

179

: 00:08:05

But, there's lots of things you can do

which really can protect you from making

180

: 00:08:09

any crazy decisions and one of those

things is When you first set your site

181

: 00:08:13

up, I guess, get an idea, get Google

analytics installed for one even just to

182

: 00:08:17

use it as a benchmark of how many users

you're getting a day so that you look

183

: 00:08:20

on the real time view and when I go on

here around lunchtime, there's usually

184

: 00:08:23

200 people browsing or a hundred people

browsing, whatever that number is, you

185

: 00:08:27

can get a benchmark of what's going on.

186

: 00:08:28

And again, there's.

187

: 00:08:29

Plenty of other places you can create

these benchmarks, your Merchant Center

188

: 00:08:32

account, if you have one your AdWords

account, if you're running ads you can

189

: 00:08:36

use Lighthouse, you can use Clarity so

Lighthouse I mentioned because you may

190

: 00:08:40

want to benchmark your page speed before

you even have a problem, just to get an

191

: 00:08:44

idea of how your pages behave and what

an acceptable load time is, getting

192

: 00:08:47

an idea of how your, Normal behavior

of your website is even right at the

193

: 00:08:52

start is a good point to be at because

then when things do go wrong, you kind

194

: 00:08:56

of got a checklist that you can run

through to say, do things look healthy?

195

: 00:08:59

Do things look like they normally

look when things are good?

196

: 00:09:02

Cause that's a good indicator

that you are not the problem.

197

: 00:09:05

And more so it could be an external

factor like seasonality, et cetera.

198

: 00:09:09

You hit on quite a few things

there that I want to revisit.

199

: 00:09:11

But there's an overarching theme

that I think is brilliant when you're

200

: 00:09:14

attempting to diagnose the first of all,

you have a problem, try to diagnose it.

201

: 00:09:18

Don't react right prescription

without diagnosis.

202

: 00:09:20

Yeah, I'll practice because I've

seen like kind of view the situation.

203

: 00:09:23

Yeah, I've seen people do that

to change the website changes

204

: 00:09:26

the offer change the name.

205

: 00:09:27

tell this story all the time.

206

: 00:09:28

It's obnoxious, but we

were running an email.

207

: 00:09:30

Marketing campaign and the

email was performing poorly.

208

: 00:09:33

And so I was tweaking

the body of the email.

209

: 00:09:35

And when we dug into it, it was the

subject line that was performing poorly

210

: 00:09:38

because nobody was opening the damn email.

211

: 00:09:40

So I'm tweaking a body

that's not even being read.

212

: 00:09:42

But that's not, if you go to the

thing that you think you're good

213

: 00:09:45

at or that you think you can fix.

214

: 00:09:46

So if you run into this problem the

way to diagnose the problem is to look

215

: 00:09:50

at what, what's the lead indicator,

which is, I love that you mentioned the

216

: 00:09:53

Google analytics thing because if my

sales drops today, the first question

217

: 00:09:58

is, well, did my traffic drop today?

218

: 00:10:00

Exactly.

219

: 00:10:01

Because if my traffic did

not drop today, now I know.

220

: 00:10:05

There's potentially a problem on site.

221

: 00:10:07

But if my traffic dropped, now

I know, alright, let's go look

222

: 00:10:10

at, now is that organic traffic?

223

: 00:10:11

Paid traffic?

224

: 00:10:12

Referral traffic?

225

: 00:10:12

Email traffic?

226

: 00:10:13

Yeah.

227

: 00:10:14

But it gives you the ability to begin to

figure out what is it that's going on.

228

: 00:10:18

Pitching, holing, and separating out

what those potential Aggravating factors

229

: 00:10:23

might be where that problem may exist.

230

: 00:10:25

So obviously if you find that

it's your traffic is still the

231

: 00:10:29

same, then yeah, you need to start

looking at does your checkout work?

232

: 00:10:33

Does your add to cart button work?

233

: 00:10:35

Can you go through the checkout on a

different browser to your normal browser?

234

: 00:10:39

Checkout as a guest, checkout on a

different remote like internet provider?

235

: 00:10:42

I've seen all sorts of weird

things in the past where...

236

: 00:10:44

Even ISPs have had an issue and all

of a sudden some of your website

237

: 00:10:47

doesn't work because you're relying

on a third party piece of code that's

238

: 00:10:50

maybe just not being passed through

the network properly, I guess.

239

: 00:10:54

But It's surprising how many people

don't check out their actual site

240

: 00:10:59

functionality when they have a

problem and they don't realize that

241

: 00:11:02

it's their site that's at fault.

242

: 00:11:03

I know when you guys do

your onboarding, right?

243

: 00:11:04

You make sure that

people's checkouts work.

244

: 00:11:06

Because.

245

: 00:11:07

People often have issues.

246

: 00:11:08

I mean, really, really, I'm almost

ashamed to admit this, but when I was

247

: 00:11:11

lot more inexperienced I had a site that

was running for about three years with a

248

: 00:11:15

broken checkout and I had no idea because

at no point did I think, I'll check out as

249

: 00:11:20

a guest and then go and try and change my

address, which happens quite frequently.

250

: 00:11:23

People get offered through a checkout

and decide, do you know what?

251

: 00:11:25

I need to deliver it to my neighbor

because I'm not going to be in maybe.

252

: 00:11:28

And when you do that, it choked out the

checkout and wouldn't let you back in.

253

: 00:11:31

And.

254

: 00:11:32

It was infuriating and it's like I had

no idea that that problem even existed.

255

: 00:11:36

And when I found it, I kicked myself

because I saw about a 30 percent

256

: 00:11:39

increase in sales straight away

afterwards when I sorted it out.

257

: 00:11:43

So there are silly things like that

that you really do need to test and

258

: 00:11:46

you need to be kind of testing that

anyway as a matter of best practice.

259

: 00:11:49

I think making sure that your

website actually functions properly.

260

: 00:11:52

And like I say, making sure you

can check out as a guest think

261

: 00:11:54

this is more important for websites

that are self hosted, not so much

262

: 00:11:57

Shopify where it's kind of harder

to break things that substantial.

263

: 00:12:01

although Shopify can break, I

mean, you can break it if you try

264

: 00:12:04

real, real hard, especially for me.

265

: 00:12:05

You can break anything

if you try hard enough.

266

: 00:12:07

Yeah.

267

: 00:12:09

I have proven that theory.

268

: 00:12:11

My wife she wrote a book it's called

Postpartum Me, go buy my wife's book.

269

: 00:12:15

She wrote a book and she

wanted to get speaking gigs.

270

: 00:12:17

And so we sent out like press

releases and, we had some kind

271

: 00:12:20

of put some fire behind it.

272

: 00:12:21

And she wasn't getting any responses.

273

: 00:12:22

And it was a couple of months into it.

274

: 00:12:25

She went to her website and

there's a contact us form.

275

: 00:12:27

And she tried to fill out the form on the

website and it just didn't work, period.

276

: 00:12:30

And the minute we fixed

the form, same story.

277

: 00:12:33

She starts getting a ton of

like, inquiries for podcast

278

: 00:12:35

speaking stage, whatever.

279

: 00:12:37

And it was devastating because.

280

: 00:12:39

That's after all the marketing stopped.

281

: 00:12:40

It's like, what did we miss

out on for that time where

282

: 00:12:42

the form wasn't even working?

283

: 00:12:43

I just wrote a Twitter thread about this.

284

: 00:12:45

Go hire somebody on Fiverr.

285

: 00:12:47

Say, I'm gonna pay you whatever, a month.

286

: 00:12:49

20 bucks a month or something.

287

: 00:12:50

It's the best 20 a month

anybody will ever spend.

288

: 00:12:52

What would even be even better is...

289

: 00:12:54

Because there's a bunch of people on

Fiverr that will check your website

290

: 00:12:56

for you and they check, you know, all

links, all conversion opportunities, all

291

: 00:12:59

browsers, all devices or a myriad of them.

292

: 00:13:01

Cause I don't think there's a

way to truly check all of them.

293

: 00:13:03

And what I would do is

I'd offer them a bounty.

294

: 00:13:06

I'd be like, Hey man, for every.

295

: 00:13:08

Mistake you catch that's

actually a significant mistake.

296

: 00:13:11

I'll give you a buck or I'll give you

10 bucks or whatever it is properly

297

: 00:13:14

incentivized to go do it, but they'll

record themselves on loom, walking

298

: 00:13:17

through your website, checking it.

299

: 00:13:18

Because things break all the time.

300

: 00:13:20

we added a chat widget recently to a

website and there was just a conflict

301

: 00:13:23

of code for an external chat widget.

302

: 00:13:25

I think it broke an option set on one

of those sites and you couldn't select

303

: 00:13:30

options and not every product has options.

304

: 00:13:32

So it's kind of like, We

just caught it by chance.

305

: 00:13:34

And we're like, Hey, hang on

a minute, we can't do this

306

: 00:13:36

certain function on the website.

307

: 00:13:37

And it was a critical function.

308

: 00:13:38

So it is really important.

309

: 00:13:39

think an important takeaway

is you're never above that.

310

: 00:13:42

You need to make sure that no matter how

big your website is, you, you need to

311

: 00:13:45

be checking these things are working.

312

: 00:13:46

Cause it can creep in.

313

: 00:13:47

It only takes a developer to drop

a slight theme change that pushes

314

: 00:13:51

an important button off the side

of the page somewhere by accident.

315

: 00:13:54

It happens.

316

: 00:13:55

I love that.

317

: 00:13:56

You're never above that.

318

: 00:13:57

your next note, how to keep a cool

head and what to do during the

319

: 00:14:00

famine period, you've got, I don't

want to say an SOP, but you have

320

: 00:14:03

some advice to people as to, what to

do, steps and processes, et cetera.

321

: 00:14:09

Yeah.

322

: 00:14:09

we've touched on quite a

bit of it already, I guess.

323

: 00:14:11

first thing, have you made any

changes to your website recently?

324

: 00:14:14

There's like the first thing checking

your site actually functions.

325

: 00:14:16

So we've covered making sure your cart

works, your checkout works, you can

326

: 00:14:20

register as a guest, you can register.

327

: 00:14:21

So on and so forth, multiple devices that

you can use, is it displaying properly?

328

: 00:14:26

Once you've kind of worked through

that and you've worked out that

329

: 00:14:29

it's not the functionality of your

site, then like you say, if your

330

: 00:14:32

traffic's good, you need to start

looking at potentially your offering.

331

: 00:14:37

what we will tend to do is we'll go

and do what we call a visibility check.

332

: 00:14:41

we will go on to Google,

we will go and see if our.

333

: 00:14:43

Product placement is good for Google

shopping ads, for instance, if it's e

334

: 00:14:46

commerce, the search ads are there, that

your normal organic rankings are there.

335

: 00:14:50

So if you're using a tool like SEMrush

if you've set that up previously

336

: 00:14:54

to your outage you should have an

idea of where some of your best

337

: 00:14:57

performing keywords sit normally.

338

: 00:14:59

And you can go and look at those and go

and say, right, I used to be position

339

: 00:15:01

three for my best selling product.

340

: 00:15:03

Has that now gone?

341

: 00:15:04

is that disappeared?

342

: 00:15:05

Once you've kind of said,

right, I'm definitely there

343

: 00:15:08

still, is your offering good?

344

: 00:15:09

Is your pricing right?

345

: 00:15:11

Is there a new competitor that's kind of

beating you to the punch on their pricing

346

: 00:15:15

so that you're getting some of the clicks

and you're seeing the traffic maybe,

347

: 00:15:18

but because people kind of, I don't know

if I'm the only person who does this.

348

: 00:15:21

I feel like a lot of people do.

349

: 00:15:23

I've definitely got a friend who has

way too many tabs open all the time.

350

: 00:15:25

I go down the line.

351

: 00:15:26

I'm like, open, open, open, open, open.

352

: 00:15:28

Exactly.

353

: 00:15:29

So you get all the visitors.

354

: 00:15:31

But if someone's price is cheaper,

you just see that as a bounce, right?

355

: 00:15:34

And you've got to make sure you're

offering offerings competitive.

356

: 00:15:38

Now, your offering can be competitive

in a number of ways, right?

357

: 00:15:41

It can be, delivery speed might be

the way your offering is better.

358

: 00:15:44

It might not always be priced.

359

: 00:15:45

So that's worth considering.

360

: 00:15:46

But if someone's significantly cheaper

than you, that's always like a really

361

: 00:15:49

painful factor and that's something

that you might find and think, okay,

362

: 00:15:52

this is my best selling product.

363

: 00:15:53

I'm normally selling a

hundred of these a day.

364

: 00:15:55

It's stopped.

365

: 00:15:56

Is this new competitor that's just

popped up is now occupying the top

366

: 00:16:01

product shopping bar, and I'm focusing

on shopping cause it's an easiest one

367

: 00:16:03

to use as sort of an example of this.

368

: 00:16:05

are they poaching your customers?

369

: 00:16:06

You're still getting the traffic, but

you're not getting the transactions.

370

: 00:16:09

And that might be a factor.

371

: 00:16:11

And that can be a factor if your

traffic's dropped as you might see

372

: 00:16:13

less traffic because this people aren't

even getting to your website, maybe.

373

: 00:16:16

If that's not the case, then you kind of

need to start looking into your merchant

374

: 00:16:21

center, make sure that your feed is,

you're getting a click through rates,

375

: 00:16:24

you're getting all those sort of things

that you need to see when, that indicate

376

: 00:16:27

your site is healthy at that point.

377

: 00:16:29

go through, we'll make sure that

you're visible, your offering is good.

378

: 00:16:32

If that's all good, you can kind of

start to breathe a bit easier because

379

: 00:16:35

you kind of then know It's just a

trend in the market and it doesn't

380

: 00:16:39

necessarily mean it's always, a

trend in the market, but you've got

381

: 00:16:42

a good indication that it's not you.

382

: 00:16:43

if your pricing is good, visible.

383

: 00:16:45

Why wouldn't people be buying

from you like they normally are?

384

: 00:16:48

I mean, there are other factors you

can find when you're in that process.

385

: 00:16:52

Like your ads aren't there.

386

: 00:16:53

Has your card been declined?

387

: 00:16:55

iT happens.

388

: 00:16:56

especially with the, like, obviously

Google changes sometimes hard to predict

389

: 00:17:00

what your spend is going to be, right?

390

: 00:17:01

depending on how your account's set up

and I've seen multiple accounts where

391

: 00:17:04

they're like, Oh, our ads aren't working.

392

: 00:17:06

I don't know why.

393

: 00:17:06

And it's.

394

: 00:17:07

There's a card declined email

in some admin inbox somewhere

395

: 00:17:10

that they don't know about.

396

: 00:17:11

but yeah, I mean, that's, once

you've done all that, there

397

: 00:17:13

are other things you can do.

398

: 00:17:14

And we talked about having friends

in the marketplace and how you

399

: 00:17:18

can kind of get an idea of who's.

400

: 00:17:20

Who else is in the marketplace that

you deal with on a daily basis.

401

: 00:17:23

So your suppliers, et cetera.

402

: 00:17:24

what an interesting, you go ask

them, you're like, Hey, casually.

403

: 00:17:28

Yeah.

404

: 00:17:28

How are things going?

405

: 00:17:29

Like, you busy?

406

: 00:17:30

What's going on in a casual way?

407

: 00:17:32

Don't, don't obviously pick

up the phone and go, Hey.

408

: 00:17:34

Our sales have stopped.

409

: 00:17:35

Please help.

410

: 00:17:36

Oh, I do that now.

411

: 00:17:37

I'll call my agency buddies and be

like, dude, I am bleeding right now.

412

: 00:17:40

Like what is the, what is going on?

413

: 00:17:43

And it's always interesting because, I've

got some friends that I'm close enough

414

: 00:17:46

to where they're like, Oh no, me too.

415

: 00:17:48

And that's when I'm like, thank

God, But the minute, they're like,

416

: 00:17:50

Oh man, we're just crushing life.

417

: 00:17:52

That's when I know, okay, I suck at

something and I need to go figure it out.

418

: 00:17:54

Something's wrong.

419

: 00:17:55

Yeah.

420

: 00:17:55

Well, now it's just time

to diagnose what it is.

421

: 00:17:57

But I think Biggest thing that

I take away from the situation.

422

: 00:18:01

Once all you've gone down that list of

panic and what's going on and try and

423

: 00:18:04

diagnose everything you can and you've,

get to the bottom of the part and you're

424

: 00:18:06

like, okay, I've given myself a small

checklist of jobs because I found out

425

: 00:18:10

that there is a new supplier that's got

a better image than I've got to Mm-Hmm.

426

: 00:18:12

Drag people in or a better headline

on their ads, or they've got a better

427

: 00:18:16

page title on my bestselling product.

428

: 00:18:17

So I need to make some changes

or I've, I've lost an ad rank.

429

: 00:18:21

Search into position.

430

: 00:18:22

maybe I need to go revisit some of my

page content and get that bumped up.

431

: 00:18:26

But once you've gone through that,

you've got like a nice window

432

: 00:18:29

where you can kind of go, right.

433

: 00:18:31

I don't need to panic so much.

434

: 00:18:32

I don't need to make any knee

jerk reactions, which is a

435

: 00:18:34

fatal mistake in my opinion.

436

: 00:18:36

You can then adjust those few

things that you've actually taken a

437

: 00:18:40

measured approach Take some time to

actually get on with your normal job.

438

: 00:18:45

It's a terrible, terrible thing when,

and I don't know if I'm terrible.

439

: 00:18:48

I'm saying this is a bad thing to do

and don't do it, but I do it myself.

440

: 00:18:51

You can find yourself just staring

analytics and trying to wish sales

441

: 00:18:55

into the inbox and you're like,

come on, I need another inquiry.

442

: 00:18:58

I need another order.

443

: 00:18:59

Come on, we need to do this.

444

: 00:19:01

You're not going to, you're

not going to change anything

445

: 00:19:02

by just staring at your inbox.

446

: 00:19:04

You might as better off using that time

to be productive and just get on with

447

: 00:19:07

what you were planning on doing that

day before the phone stopped ringing.

448

: 00:19:09

Yeah, I had a business partner who

was maybe the best salesperson I've

449

: 00:19:12

ever known in my entire life, and he

always used to say we don't control

450

: 00:19:16

our results, we control our activity.

451

: 00:19:18

And that always used to frustrate me

because I was like, well, I want results.

452

: 00:19:21

I don't want activity.

453

: 00:19:22

and you know, he was a hardcore sales guy.

454

: 00:19:24

So his whole thing was like,

how many calls have you made?

455

: 00:19:26

Cause if you haven't made a hundred

calls, you're not going to make a sale.

456

: 00:19:28

And if you make a hundred calls at

clockwork, you're going to make the sale.

457

: 00:19:31

And I feel like the same thing

is true for econ, maybe not.

458

: 00:19:33

Why it is connected, but it's

how much content you're creating.

459

: 00:19:36

How many links have you built?

460

: 00:19:37

How many strategic

partnerships have you built?

461

: 00:19:39

How many booths have you done?

462

: 00:19:40

How many videos have you shot?

463

: 00:19:41

How much are you doing on social?

464

: 00:19:42

And you'll figure out what the

equivalent of your a hundred calls is.

465

: 00:19:45

And now, you know, I've made my a hundred

calls and if things are down, you sort

466

: 00:19:49

of know what levers to go pull on.

467

: 00:19:51

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

468

: 00:19:52

That's a, that's a good takeaway.

469

: 00:19:53

I mean, I was going to ask

actually I guess you must get this.

470

: 00:19:56

How do you deal with clients when

they suddenly come to you and go,

471

: 00:19:59

Hey, the phones have stopped ringing.

472

: 00:20:01

is there like a internal strategy

that you guys have to like mitigate a

473

: 00:20:06

customer who's in full on meltdown mode?

474

: 00:20:08

Yeah, so here's my advice to agencies.

475

: 00:20:10

Number one, I'm so afraid of

saying this because I know this

476

: 00:20:13

is going to be thrown back at me.

477

: 00:20:15

We should be first one saying it.

478

: 00:20:16

So we do it depending on the client spend.

479

: 00:20:19

if they're not spending a ton, well,

, the longest period of time that will go

480

: 00:20:21

without looking at a count of three days.

481

: 00:20:23

So if you're spending, you know,

five grand a month, it's probably a

482

: 00:20:25

three day check in because there's

just nothing you can do between.

483

: 00:20:29

Yeah, you have to have

time to build it, right?

484

: 00:20:31

Right.

485

: 00:20:31

So every three days we're going to

jump in and if we notice a downtrend,

486

: 00:20:34

especially if it's distinct, what I want

my team to do is just reach out and just

487

: 00:20:38

be like, Hey James, just so you know,

I saw a drop, probably not a big deal,

488

: 00:20:41

but I'm going to keep an eye on it.

489

: 00:20:43

And that, if you're an agency or an

agency owner or a client manager,

490

: 00:20:47

that alone is the thing that will

build trust and maintain trust

491

: 00:20:51

with the client for a millennia.

492

: 00:20:54

And what sucks for most agencies

is most of them are doing the work.

493

: 00:20:58

But they're not communicating

that they're doing the work.

494

: 00:21:00

So they actually are going in and

they're going, Oh, you know what?

495

: 00:21:02

That's a drop.

496

: 00:21:02

That's interesting.

497

: 00:21:03

It's probably just trend or whatever.

498

: 00:21:05

I'll come back and I'll

look at it in three days.

499

: 00:21:07

But then the client sees it the next day.

500

: 00:21:08

They're like, Oh, dear

God, what's happening?

501

: 00:21:10

And now next words that you say

are the most frustrating words.

502

: 00:21:13

I know saw it yesterday.

503

: 00:21:14

It's not a big deal.

504

: 00:21:15

either if you know, and you

saw it yesterday, you tell

505

: 00:21:18

me like, I'm now I'm mad.

506

: 00:21:19

Or I think you're lying and you're trying

Pacify me because anybody who sees that

507

: 00:21:23

downtrend is they're irate at that point.

508

: 00:21:25

for agencies, number one, get

out ahead of it and be the one

509

: 00:21:28

that brings up the problems.

510

: 00:21:29

So many, especially younger agency

owners, they think that if they can hide

511

: 00:21:32

from the problems, that's not your job.

512

: 00:21:34

Your job is to bring the problem and

then sit and watch it with the client.

513

: 00:21:37

And you're like, Hey, we're going to

have to take care of this together.

514

: 00:21:39

And that's all the client wants from you.

515

: 00:21:40

They're not going to

blame you for the problem.

516

: 00:21:42

If you can make a reasonable case you

know, as long as you didn't cause it.

517

: 00:21:45

So that's number one.

518

: 00:21:46

Number two is anytime a client

comes to you and says, Oh, you

519

: 00:21:49

know, things are down, everything's

horrible, the world's on fire.

520

: 00:21:52

My initial reaction used to be like.

521

: 00:21:55

Calm down, which is the wrong word.

522

: 00:21:57

the real key I think to life

is complete and total empathy.

523

: 00:22:01

this looks really bad.

524

: 00:22:03

I agree.

525

: 00:22:04

Look at what they're looking at and

respond to what they're looking at.

526

: 00:22:07

The way that you would respond

to it as though it was yours.

527

: 00:22:09

So they'd be like, my sales are in half.

528

: 00:22:11

And you look at that and you're

like, Oh yeah, I see that.

529

: 00:22:13

You're absolutely right.

530

: 00:22:14

and man, if my sales got cut

in half, I'd be freaking out.

531

: 00:22:17

Let's dig in this together.

532

: 00:22:19

And then.

533

: 00:22:21

Hey, you know what?

534

: 00:22:22

I think we should actually stay calm.

535

: 00:22:23

We don't want to make

any big rash changes.

536

: 00:22:24

Let's go figure out why this is, but

trying to jump to logic right out of

537

: 00:22:28

the gate, I think is a flawed model.

538

: 00:22:30

I think it's empathy first.

539

: 00:22:32

I agree.

540

: 00:22:33

If I were you, and then you

get to, now it's not you and I

541

: 00:22:35

across the table from each other.

542

: 00:22:37

I cross over to your side.

543

: 00:22:39

We lock arms together.

544

: 00:22:40

We're buddies and we're like

going to go tackle this.

545

: 00:22:42

And I realized that feels a little

touchy feely but I just think it's

546

: 00:22:44

so, so important to stop and to, put

yourself in the other person's shoes

547

: 00:22:49

and realize, man, this for me is a job.

548

: 00:22:51

I'm managing one account.

549

: 00:22:52

I've got 30 accounts on my

slate and I've got another call

550

: 00:22:54

in 29 minutes for this person.

551

: 00:22:56

This is their livelihood.

552

: 00:22:57

Let me just stop for a minute

and say like, you know what?

553

: 00:23:00

This would freak me out too.

554

: 00:23:01

and I'm going to get to the

bottom of it and then do that.

555

: 00:23:04

You know, that's the other thing

is actually do the damn job.

556

: 00:23:06

That was such a departure, dude.

557

: 00:23:07

I'm so sorry.

558

: 00:23:07

I didn't mean to get on like a

weird soapbox soliloquy, forgive me.

559

: 00:23:11

No, David, don't worry at all.

560

: 00:23:12

I think I go off on tangents all the time.

561

: 00:23:14

So I'm the worst person for that.

562

: 00:23:16

I had an idea when you were talking

about all the things that could

563

: 00:23:18

go wrong to kill your conversions.

564

: 00:23:20

One of them that's come up for us

often is people starting to bid on

565

: 00:23:23

your brand traffic or, not just your,

brand name, but the names of your

566

: 00:23:26

products and you don't realize it.

567

: 00:23:27

And so you're doing all this amazing

awareness building and then I sneak

568

: 00:23:30

it, which is something I do by the way.

569

: 00:23:31

Like I'm not telling you it's a bad thing.

570

: 00:23:32

I actually think it's a great strategy.

571

: 00:23:34

Who doesn't?

572

: 00:23:34

Yeah, who doesn't?

573

: 00:23:34

That's exactly right.

574

: 00:23:35

If you're not doing it, you're flawed.

575

: 00:23:37

Yeah.

576

: 00:23:37

But somebody's sneaking in and

scooping out your bottom of the

577

: 00:23:40

funnel traffic and you don't even

realize that they're doing it.

578

: 00:23:42

So that's the sort of thing you'd pick up.

579

: 00:23:44

Again, doing a visibility check, looking

at Google, your front page of Google

580

: 00:23:49

and making sure you do that as well.

581

: 00:23:50

Not in like your browser just

so you're not getting served

582

: 00:23:53

the personalized results.

583

: 00:23:54

Well, if you want to be real sneaky, if

you're bidding on somebody else's brand,

584

: 00:23:58

go figure out where their corporate

office is and exclude their corporate,

585

: 00:24:00

exclude that geography from your campaign.

586

: 00:24:02

And that way, if they're being lazy about

the way they check, they'll never know.

587

: 00:24:05

that's mean.

588

: 00:24:06

Yeah, straight up evil.

589

: 00:24:08

I don't know who would do such a thing.

590

: 00:24:10

That's fantastic.

591

: 00:24:11

that's one of those

things you would identify.

592

: 00:24:13

Well, I'd like to think you'd identify

and just being familiar with your AdWords

593

: 00:24:15

account would pick that up, right?

594

: 00:24:16

For most people.

595

: 00:24:17

But yeah, Google is going to

show you auction insights.

596

: 00:24:19

It'll show you who's bidding on it.

597

: 00:24:20

But if you're not bidding on

name, you don't get that data.

598

: 00:24:22

have another, this is not as relevant,

but you mentioned if somebody

599

: 00:24:26

comes in and, price matches your

product or they have a better image.

600

: 00:24:29

This came from a friend of

mine who sold memory cards.

601

: 00:24:33

He sold more money in memory cards.

602

: 00:24:36

For two or three years than

anybody else in the world.

603

: 00:24:37

He was like the primary, the

number one memory card guy.

604

: 00:24:40

He was the biggest buyer from

like the whatever plant in

605

: 00:24:43

China makes the memory cards.

606

: 00:24:44

The thing about memory cards is a

memory card is a memory card, right?

607

: 00:24:48

Like the value proposition

is very, very, very slim.

608

: 00:24:50

You're going to have a hard time

convincing me like my plastic

609

: 00:24:52

is actually more durable.

610

: 00:24:52

And so the thing that he did that

I thought was absolutely brilliant

611

: 00:24:56

is he would put random ad hoc stuff

on the memory cards, like recipes.

612

: 00:25:00

now it's like, okay, I need a 32

gig memory card and I have two and

613

: 00:25:03

they're the exact same price, but this

one has, you know, like every Martha

614

: 00:25:07

Stewart recipe ever made or whatever.

615

: 00:25:09

And and so.

616

: 00:25:10

As weird a departure as that is, one thing

that I think e comm store owners should

617

: 00:25:13

do is supplement with digital products.

618

: 00:25:15

if you're selling a barbecue grill,

and I'm comparing your grill to

619

: 00:25:18

15 other grills, and they're all

basically the same price, but you've

620

: 00:25:21

got a four hour master class from

the guy that just won, barbecue off.

621

: 00:25:25

2023, which would cost you nothing, right?

622

: 00:25:28

Like it would cost you to be like, you

call up that guy who's a local celebrity,

623

: 00:25:31

but it's not like he's a billion dollars.

624

: 00:25:32

And you're like, Hey, man, if I pay

you a grand, can you just record a

625

: 00:25:34

video using whatever product this is?

626

: 00:25:36

And or I'll send you a free

barbecue grill or whatever.

627

: 00:25:39

And now when I'm

comparing barbecue grills.

628

: 00:25:41

It's like, Oh dude, I get that.

629

: 00:25:42

And I get the masterclass.

630

: 00:25:44

I think you did that

for mechanical pencils.

631

: 00:25:45

I think you do that for

cell phone, just give them a

632

: 00:25:47

tutorial, a how to or whatever.

633

: 00:25:50

And now that bundle becomes a

category of one and you're no

634

: 00:25:54

longer competing only on price.

635

: 00:25:56

it's enhancing your offering, really,

really enhancing your offering in

636

: 00:25:59

a way that would be difficult for

a lot of people to match as well.

637

: 00:26:02

Well, and dude, the cost of delivery

is absolute zero and it's a little

638

: 00:26:04

bit of relationship building and you

just gotta edify and credentialize

639

: 00:26:07

the person that you're using.

640

: 00:26:08

'cause you know there's some

brand building there too.

641

: 00:26:09

So many influencers would do that

for free just because now they're

642

: 00:26:12

gonna get the brand awareness.

643

: 00:26:13

what aren't we talking

about on this topic?

644

: 00:26:15

What haven't we hit that we need to hit?

645

: 00:26:16

Did I skip any of your

notes or categories?

646

: 00:26:19

I think we've covered pretty much well.

647

: 00:26:20

Everything that I hadn't

noted down really.

648

: 00:26:22

We've covered like the seasonality

thing, what to do, what not to do.

649

: 00:26:26

I think we pretty much

well gone through it.

650

: 00:26:29

If somebody is starting.

651

: 00:26:30

Fresh, given your pedigree

in the e comm world.

652

: 00:26:35

And even this topic aside,

just, you're going to talk to

653

: 00:26:38

some young bucks out there.

654

: 00:26:39

And if you wanted to encourage

them along their journey, what

655

: 00:26:42

would you say to them right now?

656

: 00:26:43

Like, what are the things that either

you wish somebody had told you or you

657

: 00:26:47

see young founders needing to hear?

658

: 00:26:50

I think don't don't overthink things.

659

: 00:26:52

Don't put things off don't

try and overly plan things.

660

: 00:26:55

Get on with things because sometimes if

you spend too much time deliberating on

661

: 00:26:59

something and the best way to attack it,

it's better to just try it and test it

662

: 00:27:03

and see if it works and if it doesn't.

663

: 00:27:05

Go at it again.

664

: 00:27:05

I see a lot of people and go to this

myself again of deliberating on something

665

: 00:27:09

for weeks and never actually finishing

it where I could have just got on

666

: 00:27:13

and just gone this will do for now.

667

: 00:27:15

Let's see how that flies.

668

: 00:27:16

And I'm, that might fly contrary

to a lot of other people's beliefs.

669

: 00:27:19

But getting something 80 percent

of the way there and testing it

670

: 00:27:23

is a lot better than getting it a

hundred percent of the way there.

671

: 00:27:25

And.

672

: 00:27:26

Never doing it because you didn't get it.

673

: 00:27:27

The hundred percent that last

final 20 percent can often be

674

: 00:27:30

a very big stretch to achieve.

675

: 00:27:32

Yeah, I think that's

such phenomenal advice.

676

: 00:27:34

I'm actually ashamed

of what I'm destroying.

677

: 00:27:36

I'm about to share.

678

: 00:27:36

I was with the business mentor

he and I were at a little

679

: 00:27:39

mini conference type thing.

680

: 00:27:40

It was like 50 people in a room basically.

681

: 00:27:41

And you see presenters going

up and a gentleman that came up

682

: 00:27:44

and, was very successful in a

space that was in at the time.

683

: 00:27:47

And later I told my mentor, I was

like, dude, that pizza guy, I'm

684

: 00:27:49

so much smarter than that guy.

685

: 00:27:50

what obnoxious words to say, right?

686

: 00:27:52

Like what a douchebag I am.

687

: 00:27:53

But I was like, I'm so

much smarter than that guy.

688

: 00:27:55

And my mentor looks at me and

he goes, yeah, but he does it.

689

: 00:27:57

there was so much truth because I

would sit there and I would tinker and

690

: 00:27:59

I would hone and I'd craft and when I

would think in it, but I'd never launch,

691

: 00:28:03

I'd never publish, I'd never push.

692

: 00:28:04

I'd never try.

693

: 00:28:05

, it needed to be 100%.

694

: 00:28:06

And the guy in question

who I actually still know.

695

: 00:28:09

Man, he just throws massive

amounts of spaghetti at the wall.

696

: 00:28:13

And he does these launches

and these challenges and these

697

: 00:28:15

webinars that are always half

assed, half baked, half cooked.

698

: 00:28:18

They piss me off.

699

: 00:28:18

Like, typos and Zoom

links that don't work.

700

: 00:28:21

and I'm not telling you to go this

far, but it is an amazing case study.

701

: 00:28:24

There's definitely a balance.

702

: 00:28:26

Yes.

703

: 00:28:27

Yes.

704

: 00:28:27

You need to be past the 50 percent mark.

705

: 00:28:29

You need to be able to get on the Zoom,

but this dude just, he doesn't care.

706

: 00:28:32

And then he figures out what works.

707

: 00:28:34

And then once it works, he actually has

people around him along the periphery,

708

: 00:28:37

and I need to stop describing him

because people are going to figure

709

: 00:28:38

out who he is, who will then come in

and like hone it and make it good.

710

: 00:28:42

And then they mint money.

711

: 00:28:43

man, just get started.

712

: 00:28:45

There's no reason not to this James.

713

: 00:28:46

This is so good.

714

: 00:28:47

Last words to you.

715

: 00:28:48

Any, anything else that we need to say?

716

: 00:28:49

Thanks for having me on here.

717

: 00:28:50

It's been great to talk to the guy

that I usually watch TV on YouTube.

718

: 00:28:54

Well, I appreciate you coming on.

719

: 00:28:55

If you're watching this and

you need help with the econ,

720

: 00:28:57

reach out to our buddy, James.

721

: 00:28:58

I'm not an affiliate.

722

: 00:28:59

I just like him.

723

: 00:28:59

I think he has a lot of good stuff to say.

724

: 00:29:01

And sometimes it's nice

to just have that support.

725

: 00:29:03

I've never not benefited

from coaching or consulting.

726

: 00:29:06

As long as you're smart about the

coach that you hire, I think that can

727

: 00:29:08

be a really, really powerful boon.

728

: 00:29:11

Other than that, like, comment, subscribe.

729

: 00:29:12

I shoot a video every day.

730

: 00:29:13

I hope I'll see you tomorrow.