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Michael Nadalin Shares the Strategies He’s Learned After Spending More Than $52,000,000 in Ads!

Michael Nadalin of Market Lead is back on The Daily Google News! And this time, he's here to share his one-page Performance Max guide to help beginners build a market-dominating campaign in just 25 minutes.

In this episode, Kasim dissects Michael's one-page Performance Max guide for beginners and compares it to the Solutions 8 PMax SOP.

They also answer the most frequently asked questions about Google Ads Performance Max, and more:

The impact of Google Ads having a very low margin of error

How Michael managed to scale up to 120k with only one asset group in one Performance Max campaign

Why there will be a decline as more people adopt Performance Max

The importance of privacy policies

Why Youtube Ads is the most underutilized ad network that is yet to be untapped into

00:00 Michael Nadalin shares the strategies he’s learned after spending more than $52,000,000 in ads

01:34 Should you run Google Ads on your own?

06:20 Every marketer is just a failed entrepreneur

10:42 Focus on that one thing you're good at and strive to be the best at it

17:30 Performance Max has the most intrusive targeting options

24:51 Why Google seems like an innocent search engine

31:19 Michael Nadalin's One-Page Performance Max Guide (For eCommerce)

36:36 Set up one Performance Max campaign with ONE asset group?

40:19 Will better videos and creatives for PMax affect conversions?

43:13 Bidding strategy and setting up tROAS

47:34 Audience signals, creative, and copy

50:09 Performance Max optimization and the Google Ads learning period

56:26 The insights tab and the importance of understanding when and how to segment

58:32 How to scale your Performance Max campaign

1:01:21 The common mistake Kasim and Michael see in the accounts they take over

1:03:07 The common misconceptions about Google Ads

1:04:12 The easy setting changes Kasim and Michael always spot and dress first

1:05:18 The biggest changes in Google Ads in the last 12 months

1:05:54 What could kill Google?

1:07:20 Making YouTube Ads work


Michael Nadalin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelna...


Download Michael Nadalin's One-Page Performance Max Guide (For eCommerce) for FREE: https://marketlead.com.au/pmax


Related Videos:

Part 1: 💸 Michael Nadalin Shares the Strategies He’s Learned After Spending More Than $50,000,000 in Ads! https://youtu.be/dINsnpMFy2c

Why Retention Is MY #1 Key Performance Indicator (KPI): https://youtu.be/Z3dFcKuXJfc

🪨 Fraudulent Traffic Is Way More of a Problem Than We Thought! Here’s How to Fix It: https://youtu.be/nXr19dQ6LN4

YouTube Ads Beat Facebook Ads Every Time! (With Aleric Heck of AdOutreach): https://youtu.be/PtnGDLhuLqo


This ULTIMATE GUIDE gives you EVERYTHING you need to know about how to set up, build and optimize your Google Ads Performance Max campaigns: https://sol8.com/performance-max/


Want to learn more about Google Ads Performance Max? Here's the link to all our PMax guide videos:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLp...


Join this channel to get access to perks, including the Friday Google Ads Live Q&A member chat:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKuk...


👉 Do you want to be featured on Daily Google News? Do you have epic value you can offer our audience? You can pitch your idea here: https://sol8.com/pitch/

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Get the latest updates, expert tips, best practices, and PROVEN Google Ads strategies every single day. Subscribe here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKuk...

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👉 Want to become a Google Ads expert?

We've demystified how Google works, and laid out everything you need to know in Google Ads–from scratch!

Learn how to build, launch and manage high-performing Google Ads campaigns in our STEP-BY-STEP Google Ads Course: 👉 https://youvsgoogle.com/

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Solutions 8 is a global authority in the Google Ads space and one of the world's leading PPC agencies.

Our YouTube channel is dedicated to sharing our most effective marketing strategies to help you achieve your business goals.

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Transcript
kasim:

I'm Kasim.

kasim:

And I'm here with Michael Michael Naline.

kasim:

Michael, always a pleasure

micael:

mate.

micael:

It's great to be back.

micael:

I love speaking to you, the Google ads.

micael:

God,

kasim:

I'm gonna quote you on that forever.

kasim:

This is our second interview.

kasim:

So that means that people liked you we could tolerate each other's presence.

micael:

Mike?

micael:

No, I, no.

micael:

Like last time I was actually quite surprised.

micael:

I thought I actually had a listen back last time.

micael:

I'm like, oh, we actually spoke about some good stuff.

micael:

And then the response I actually got from people, I just realized I'm

micael:

getting a lot of glare in my glasses.

micael:

I got hundreds of people adding me on LinkedIn, just from that interview

micael:

had like really positive response.

micael:

So I think people enjoyed it and I just wanna make sure that when we

micael:

have our chat today, we just kind of.

micael:

Really throw a Adam bottom of like value to them.

micael:

So get ready guys.

micael:

It's gonna be good.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

So the last video, if you didn't see it check it out.

kasim:

I'll make sure to include it in the description of this

kasim:

video, that one had 3,100 views.

kasim:

Which is a lot for my channel.

kasim:

Like if I get a thousand views on a video, I know that I did something.

kasim:

Right.

kasim:

So that one obviously popped off pretty well.

micael:

I did promote it a bit.

micael:

I just posted a few times on LinkedIn and on Instagram.

micael:

So I think I got a bit of my, you were most audience.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

My audience to have a look at it, mate.

micael:

So, but I'll say that you've got a pretty big channel now you're

micael:

nearly a 10 K, which is, yeah.

micael:

Amazing, good work, man.

kasim:

I mean, for a niche like ours, that's not a, I didn't know

kasim:

if we would quite make it that far, but I'm pretty happy about it.

micael:

Right.

micael:

You're posting regularly.

micael:

You're posting like really high quality in terms of content videos.

micael:

Like I know I watch them regular.

micael:

All the other Google ad specialists always come to your videos for

micael:

like the most up to date stuff.

micael:

Because a lot of the stuff in the market now being at trainings is very antiquated

micael:

because it's based on stuff that was working a year ago, two years ago.

micael:

And like a lot of those gurus aren't actually up to date

micael:

or still running in agencies.

micael:

So they're still talking about tactics and strategies from like five or 10 years

micael:

ago, which to an extent kind of work, but if you're up against killers like you

micael:

and me, you've got, yeah, you're fucked.

micael:

Sorry.

micael:

That's kind of the thing too, is like, it really got to a point to where, I mean,

micael:

you used to be able to, as a business owner used to be able to run your own

micael:

Google ads two years ago, for sure.

micael:

And then, like it started to just narrow down and narrow down and narrow down.

micael:

And then I look at what's involved from a strategy perspective take

micael:

technical implementation, put it aside just from a strategy perspective.

kasim:

I think it's damn near impossible.

kasim:

And I've always been afraid to say that because I own an agency.

kasim:

So I never wanted to tell people like, oh, you can't do this yourself.

kasim:

I actually wanted to be the opposite.

kasim:

I wanted to say, Hey, you can do this yourself.

kasim:

Here's how, and then once you get past a certain point, come hire me.

kasim:

But now I'm kind of like, I don't even think you should do this yourself.

kasim:

Like, it's just too hard.

micael:

I was reflecting on this yesterday just because especially

micael:

the changes in the market.

micael:

I actually took a note.

micael:

I just wanna say like, Google ads has an extremely low margin for error.

micael:

Right?

micael:

And is unforgiving, like you make one small change.

micael:

You've spent thousands of dollars.

micael:

And especially like on some of the clients that you and I manage, like bigger

micael:

clients, you make a small keyword issue.

micael:

Like change the match for some reason, or the settings off, you

micael:

could spend five, 10 K on nothing.

micael:

And if you're not on that, like a Hawk or you don't have like tracking

micael:

or dashboards to really be on top of that, Like you're cooked.

micael:

And like, I sent you a few ideas of things we could chat about.

micael:

Like, I hit up a few mates agency owners, marketing managers,

micael:

before this, and most of them were saying like, what are the biggest

micael:

mistakes you see in their accounts?

micael:

And now it's like, well, everything.

micael:

Because like, if you're not like a really sophisticated Google ads, advertiser,

micael:

you're not gonna know all the small things and all the small things of the

micael:

stuff that you talk about, or the stuff that, our agencies actually implement.

micael:

Like people go, oh, what are the things I need to do?

micael:

And it's like, dude, like it's asking a surgeon, like, what do you need to do?

micael:

And it's like, there's so many small things that, yeah.

micael:

There's not like everyone's looking for the big thing that there's

micael:

like a hundred small things and you mess one up and everything gone.

micael:

So there is such a low margin for error.

micael:

I've noticed which I'm presuming you agree with as well.

kasim:

So I was on a sales call this morning with a gal.

kasim:

Hopefully she never watches this video because I flat out, turned down her work.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

I don't end up on a lot of those calls, but this one Mike who runs our

kasim:

customer intake, he was kind of on the fence and he was like, Hey man,

kasim:

just come up, give a hard check.

kasim:

And the first thing she says to me, or one of the first things is, Hey,

kasim:

if I hire you, I wanna know that you're not gonna make any mistakes.

kasim:

And I was like, no, I'm gonna make all the mistakes.

kasim:

I'm just gonna make 'em more efficiently than you are.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

But like those folks that like really wanna know like, oh, you're gonna

kasim:

do this perfectly the first time.

kasim:

No, that's not how Google ads works.

kasim:

Like I'm not gonna make technical errors, but we don't know until we test.

kasim:

And that's no matter how many times I say that, cuz I mean, I feel

kasim:

like I'm a broken record, you know?

kasim:

It's like, oh, you have to test.

kasim:

There's no guarantees, whatever.

kasim:

But then I end up on the phone with someone who's like, oh,

kasim:

I've watched all your videos.

kasim:

How long is this gonna take?

kasim:

And I'm like, well, clearly you haven't watched any of my

kasim:

videos cause I have no idea.

micael:

Well there's a D like there's an issue there that if you really

micael:

could do that, you'd be a billionaire.

micael:

You'd have every client in the world.

micael:

And you've said that so many times and you'd be laughing.

micael:

I knew that I'd be a much wealthier human.

micael:

I wouldn't be like, and you'd be running a business that wasn't advertising.

micael:

But the other part of that is, is.

micael:

People are being marketed with like the proven strategy, this and

micael:

this, like everything's gonna work.

micael:

So then when they actually come to an expert and an industry leader like

micael:

yourself, they expect to get that, like you to be like, yeah, it's gonna work.

micael:

But like, then you're honest with them.

micael:

It's like going to like the top surgeons, I keep saying surgeons, cuz it's relevant.

micael:

And they're like, you've got like a horrible something surgery and then

micael:

they would surgery in rocket science.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Like they would never say to you, yeah, yeah.

micael:

This will be a hundred percent work.

micael:

A hundred percent cure.

micael:

They know there's like liabilities that come with that.

micael:

Like even just, not even from a marketing perspective, but

micael:

just like a legal perspective.

micael:

Like there's no way you can ever guarantee it.

micael:

You can increase the odds.

micael:

And it's just like, reducing the downside.

micael:

But there's no guarantee cuz if there was you and I would be

micael:

billionaires on a boat laughing a lot.

kasim:

do.

kasim:

I'd just be buying businesses and running Google ADSS for which we also do.

kasim:

Like, we've gotten good enough to where it's all right,

kasim:

let's go play the equity game.

kasim:

But yeah, we're still also I tell everybody, every marketer

kasim:

is just a failed entre.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Stress, test this for me.

kasim:

Okay.

kasim:

Anytime you ever run into a digital marketer bet money, they

kasim:

just failed at something else.

kasim:

Probably a couple of other things.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

But the only thing that kept them afloat is I'm really

kasim:

good at this marketing thing.

kasim:

So, they started doing that.

kasim:

Yeah.

micael:

Right.

micael:

So what was your little journey?

kasim:

I had, a couple of them.

kasim:

That's man.

kasim:

I had so many little businesses.

kasim:

I tried real estate.

kasim:

I had a company that sold purified, mercury.

kasim:

I sold hand noded rugs, baskets, software web, like, and then like slowly

kasim:

that bled into my, digital marketing.

kasim:

, micael: cause solite used to be like a

kasim:

was essentially, you had eight services,

kasim:

the whole kit and caboodle.

kasim:

I had a green screen studio.

kasim:

We had a videographer and editor on staff.

kasim:

And I was so convinced that we could just be the best at everything.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

It was a nightmare.

kasim:

I remember I had a financial goal in my mind.

kasim:

I was like, okay, once I make X, I'm gonna be happy.

kasim:

And I hit X at solutions eight when solutions eight was its old iteration.

kasim:

And it was the most miserable I've ever been.

kasim:

I was making more money than I've ever made.

kasim:

And I was like, this is awful.

kasim:

Cause I have, at the time I think I had only had like 15 or 20 clients, but

kasim:

we were doing really big, robust work.

kasim:

And so the, the billables were large, but we were on the hook for everything.

kasim:

Like anything that went wrong in the digital sphere.

kasim:

I got the phone call for every single one of these clients.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Was it was God awful.

micael:

And like, that's exactly it.

micael:

And I've just noticed that from working at agencies, myself, that, when you're

micael:

responsible for everything, you're never really mastering one thing.

micael:

Yep.

micael:

The other thing is I remember watching one of your videos, you'd be like,

micael:

you'd wake up on a Monday morning being like, I hope the SEO rankings

micael:

haven't dropped, like something that you've got so little influence over,

micael:

unless like you're really pushing the black hat side or the gray hat side.

micael:

It's stressful, but at least with like Google ads, you, we can control it.

micael:

And like, that was another thing I was reflect on yesterday.

micael:

Like, you know, your agency is like a top tier agency in the us, if not the world,

micael:

I've been doing this for like 10 years.

micael:

And like, you see the difference.

micael:

We pick up accounts from our other agencies that are once at, or we

micael:

actually end up like what you do.

micael:

And I do as well.

micael:

You white label for other agencies.

micael:

Right.

micael:

And it's like, a lot of agencies are selling something that they can't do,

micael:

or when you're picking up an account.

micael:

I've just worked at agencies that have the client paying the same retainer

micael:

as every other client, but they've literally just like picked out of a hat.

micael:

It wasn't a hat.

micael:

It was just like name 1, 2, 3 on like a spreadsheet being

micael:

like you get this client.

micael:

And it was like, there was no insight towards who was the best specialist.

micael:

There was no insight towards like the budget.

micael:

It was just pretty much here's a client here's someone's

micael:

business, give it to a junior.

micael:

We don't care.

micael:

They, learn off their dime, which is horrible at the end of the day.

micael:

Like if people are paying good money, they should expect to have

micael:

bloody good person working on it.

kasim:

We don't have access to a certain tier of client.

kasim:

Solutions eight is Google specific and there's so many clients that

kasim:

wanna write one check to one agency.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And have them do it, which I understand.

kasim:

So like the entire fortune 1000 will never hire me.

kasim:

I have one publicly traded company.

kasim:

And true story.

kasim:

Somebody came to us and was vetting our service and we walked through

kasim:

the whole process with them.

kasim:

It was really annoying too.

kasim:

It was like RFP que, which I don't normally don't do.

kasim:

But they were, they came through a referral source, which is

kasim:

the only time I have access to like those higher end clients.

kasim:

And they ended up telling 'em, Hey, love you guys, but we're

kasim:

gonna go with an agency that we think just has way more Polish.

kasim:

And I mean, you can tell, dude, I have no Polish whatsoever.

kasim:

I'm like the antithesis a polished you.

kasim:

I here's.

kasim:

The funny part though, is next thing I know one of our white label partners

kasim:

goes, Hey, we have a new client and sends us all the information onboard.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

It's them.

kasim:

It's the people that told us they're going through an agency that is more polished.

kasim:

They just turn around and Upsource the work to me and pay four X for Polish.

kasim:

So you're not paying for anything other than $12 croissants

kasim:

in a nice conference room.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Right.

kasim:

There's no difference.

kasim:

They're all just schlepping their work over to.

kasim:

But I do understand the need to have.

kasim:

One source of truth.

kasim:

One person accountable.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Somebody who's managing before we started this call, you showed me

kasim:

something that was really amazing in terms of the way that you build

kasim:

business intelligence for your clients.

kasim:

And the way that you look at the full picture, we don't do that.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

I look at Google ads.

kasim:

I'll look at, like we'll play the attribution game, but only

kasim:

because it impacts Google ads.

kasim:

Yeah, exactly.

kasim:

But like if somebody starts asking about things like CRO or web presence

kasim:

or content or optimization, it's like, Hey, sorry, I'm good at this.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And so it, you end up in this really weird position.

kasim:

It's very like.

kasim:

Pick your poison, because now that I've niche all the way

kasim:

down, I only get people that are interested in that specific niche.

kasim:

If there is somebody that really wants the full spectrum services, I

kasim:

never even show up on their radar.

kasim:

Yeah.

micael:

And you that's what you want, mate, cuz you don't wanna be talking

micael:

or selling stuff or at the end of the day, be responsible for things that

micael:

realistically you don't want to be.

micael:

Like, I have people asking me about like SEO.

micael:

I'm like, dude, I've never like, I know a bit of the fundamentals,

micael:

but I've never talk about it.

micael:

Never sell it, never consult on it because it's like I could spend that

micael:

same amount of energy getting five new clients and making 10 X the money.

micael:

Right.

micael:

It's like some people are just so desperate for all the money that they get.

micael:

Like a really small portion of.

micael:

When you could just like, really just focus on what you're good

micael:

at, get really good at it.

micael:

And then just charge whatever you want and just live the dream.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Which is what you guys are doing.

micael:

But at the same time, it gives people peace of mind that look regardless if

micael:

the campaign works or not, they know that the right person's working on it,

micael:

cuz you've got the trust and they, that really gives 'em the peace of mind.

micael:

Like I know I was messaging you last week about it.

micael:

Cuz you had a message a video on customer experience or like client retention.

micael:

And like one of the things I'm really big on is like peace of mind.

micael:

Like people always talk about results, but results are an aspect of peace of mind.

micael:

Peace of mind includes like results.

micael:

It includes good communication insights.

micael:

And just like showing that you actually care about them.

micael:

So like when stuff doesn't go well in the whole business, not just on

micael:

the Google or the advertising side, you're gonna be there to support them.

micael:

And that's why people stay with your agency or stay with your business.

micael:

Like my, I don't lose clients.

micael:

Like I've had clients for years now and they're paying me good money.

micael:

It's because they trust.

micael:

And I'm sure it's the same with you.

micael:

It's like when you earn that trust, like a lot of people are just trying to get a

micael:

sale through the door, hand off to someone else who doesn't have the expertise.

micael:

And then they're wondering why they're like the bucket's empty

micael:

as fast as it's filling up.

micael:

It's because like, you just don't really care.

micael:

You're not giving the client that peace of mind that look, I'm looking after you.

micael:

I'm like making sure you get results, but I'm communicating

micael:

in a way for you to know that.

micael:

Like everything's okay.

micael:

I guess to the point with me, my clients don't even respond to me at times.

micael:

Like we get it, we get there.

micael:

We're going well.

micael:

I'm like, no, no, this isn't about me saying, we're going well,

micael:

it's reminding you, like, this is one part of your business.

micael:

You don't need to worry about anymore.

micael:

Cause they've got so many things to worry about.

micael:

So they're paying you to worry for.

micael:

Yeah, well, that's it, man.

micael:

And they're playing, paying you to blame you for when you, well,

micael:

no, there's a lot of that too.

micael:

That's what, I tell when I'm hiring a client manager, I tell 'em that.

micael:

I said you won't hear from anybody unless they're pissed.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Because when things are going great, then they disappear and they don't respond

micael:

and they actually hard to track down.

micael:

And then as soon as things start going poorly, like we only ever

micael:

get the call when things are bad.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Which I guess just is what it is.

micael:

Quick question.

micael:

And I know we were just talking before about like my business intelligence

micael:

docs, but then you mentioned your the attribution stuff might just

micael:

quickly touch on the old the data and the tracking side now with Google

micael:

analytics for, and the Google ads tag.

micael:

So here are my thoughts, mate.

micael:

I'd love to get your thoughts.

micael:

I used to like years ago when I was working agency side, we'd use.

micael:

Google analytics as the conversion pixel, and then push that back into Google ads.

micael:

Just so there was consistency, but recently in working with like a lot

micael:

of really, really high tier Google ads specialists in the states, just like as

micael:

friends who are all just using the Google ads tag now, like it's own conversion

micael:

pixel, the reason why is it captures more data than the analytics one does.

micael:

And now with Google analytics UA, the original universal analytics

micael:

leaving, you're gonna need to use either a Google tag or the GA four tag.

micael:

And I just don't think the GA four is up to scratch it.

micael:

Especially for eCommerce, like I've noticed with eCommerce, the attribution

micael:

is significantly different with the Google ads tag versus the Google analytics.

micael:

So I was wondering like the four has attribution no, no, no, no, no, no.

micael:

Sorry.

micael:

The Google analytics are the original one.

micael:

The ATT I'm saying is I absolutely agree with you.

micael:

It's shocking how much it drops.

micael:

Here's my theory.

micael:

It's something of a, this is supported by the way that Google's rolled out

micael:

everything that they've ever ruled out before they rolled out performance, max

micael:

they made a massive set of changes that had no preface and made us all insane.

micael:

They made data driven attribution in the default overnight.

micael:

Then they opened it up customer match to everybody.

micael:

They removed bid types, strategies, broad match automat.

micael:

Like they made all these changes and the whole time, and you can

micael:

see this on my YouTube channel.

micael:

I was just freaking out.

micael:

I was like the world's on fire where they're taking everything away.

micael:

There's no way out we're screwed.

micael:

And then they rolled out performance max.

micael:

And what you saw was.

micael:

Clarity.

micael:

It was like, oh, you couldn't have performance max until this was true.

micael:

And this was true.

micael:

And this was true and this was true.

micael:

So it, it actually ended up making a lot of sense.

micael:

And I felt like a total idiot man, to be honest with you, like, I was embarrassed.

kasim:

I was like, God, I've been sitting here like telling everybody,

kasim:

Hey, you know, we're all gonna die.

kasim:

There's a cliff coming.

kasim:

But that's the way that it looked, cuz they took this away, took this way and

kasim:

they did it inside of a framework where we've never had any other paradigm.

kasim:

And then they gave us performance max and I'm not saying

kasim:

performance, max is perfect.

kasim:

But I'm saying that the thing that they gave us was a lifeline

kasim:

mm-hmm and,, it made all the other feature sets make sense.

kasim:

So take that concept to put it on a shelf.

kasim:

Here's the way I'd look at it.

kasim:

GA four J four.

kasim:

It's the reverse they've given us this, empty vessel.

kasim:

And then you can see these big, huge gaping holes where you just know

kasim:

like, okay, features gonna be plugged in, plugged in, plugged in, plugged

kasim:

in they can't plug in any of those features until the vessel exists.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

So they have to deploy this first, get it in place, and then it's

kasim:

gonna be like, you know what I mean?

kasim:

Like they're gonna start bolting shit on.

kasim:

So I think Google analytics four is at, as in its current

kasim:

manifestation is a travesty.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

I think it's gonna hurt a lot of, especially small businesses if you're

kasim:

not collecting first party data.

kasim:

I think it's gonna hurt campaign performance.

kasim:

So many people are using Google analytics tracking and porting into Google ads

kasim:

and with the new Google, like it's a catastrophic error, but I actually, and

kasim:

I can't believe that I'm saying this.

kasim:

I think it's gonna be better for us long term, because Google is lifting us

kasim:

out of all potential privacy concerns.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And it's gonna be better for Google long term.

kasim:

Dude, I think what Google has pulled off with the privacy first initiatives

kasim:

is a freaking master stroke.

kasim:

They have done nothing literal, zero to protect people's privacy, literal,

kasim:

zero to protect people's privacy.

kasim:

And yet they've made it look like they're doing something and they've rolled

kasim:

out these, these marketing mechanisms that actually are far, far, far more.

kasim:

What would you say open for abuse abusive.

kasim:

Yes.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

It's like, oh my dear.

kasim:

God, are you freaking kidding me?

kasim:

We bought this.

kasim:

dude performance.

kasim:

Max has the most intrusive targeting I've ever seen in my entire life.

kasim:

I can target people with aids.

kasim:

Think about that.

kasim:

I can target people with aids.

kasim:

I can target people who are cheating on their spouse.

kasim:

How do you know that narcotics anonymous?

kasim:

It's, it's unreal.

kasim:

It's insane.

kasim:

But nobody's talking about it.

kasim:

Is that in terms of like the custom targeting and setup performance,

kasim:

max, you can target people based off the apps that are installed on their

kasim:

phone without restriction the websites that they visit, the websites, they

kasim:

log into the search terms on their.

kasim:

So, , there's no, InMarket audience for aids, right?

kasim:

You have to be a little creative, but as long as you're a little,

kasim:

and I don't mean really creative.

kasim:

I mean, it's not like a whiteboard whiteboard session with your

kasim:

team for four and a half hours.

kasim:

It's 15 minutes of, well, if I had aids, what would I be searching for?

kasim:

What would I be looking for?

kasim:

What would I be doing?

kasim:

If I was cheating on my spouse, , if I was a heroin addict, here are

kasim:

things that are deadly, that would cause people to kill themselves.

kasim:

If some people knew and I can target according to those things

kasim:

. micael: You know what,

kasim:

You're saying this, I know we're kind of joking about it a bit, but, but like what,

kasim:

that's, this is where the issue does lie.

kasim:

Like I thought you were just talking about like the in market or the

kasim:

affinity audiences, which were in Google ads now are like a hundred

kasim:

X more abundant than what was ever available in Google analytics.

kasim:

Like I'm seeing audiences there.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

But then this next level that you are talking about, like whilst this was

kasim:

possible in the past, like on the display network, or even YouTube is like, once

kasim:

you kind of put the whole machine, like you can put all your marketing assets

kasim:

and just target, like these types of audiences, it can be quite dangerous.

kasim:

It's taking advantage of people's search.

kasim:

Cuz people do go to Google as like anonymous, voice where

kasim:

they can get advice from.

kasim:

It's like going the doctor without actually like seeing the doctor or

kasim:

it's like seeing, getting advice or seeing a psychologist without seeing

kasim:

them, like a lot of people before they actually see a doctor or psychologist

kasim:

will start Googling their symptoms.

kasim:

And if you are doing abusive marketing like this, it can be quite dangerous.

kasim:

Now I haven't done that yet, but I might start, no, I'm not gonna, I've

kasim:

got none of my clients in that real bit.

kasim:

I wouldn't be bringing this up.

kasim:

If it was something I wanted to use.

kasim:

Right.

kasim:

I'm bringing it up.

kasim:

Cause I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe this is possible.

kasim:

I can't believe nobody's talking about it and bringing this all the

kasim:

way back with Google analytics.

kasim:

Google analytics for.

kasim:

Is tracking more.

kasim:

It's taking more it's capturing more now we can't see it.

kasim:

And that's why everybody's like, oh, it's fine.

kasim:

You know what I mean?

kasim:

Like they've just turned off a certain level of visibility, but as far as what's

kasim:

gonna be available and accessible to the advertiser specifically, in terms

kasim:

of Google's ability to predict intent.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Like it's.

kasim:

So now the European union is actually doing a pretty good

kasim:

job of fighting back at this.

kasim:

GDPR is an abortion of a bill.

kasim:

it's technically impossible to be compliant, but you'll notice that

kasim:

they're going right at Google analytics.

kasim:

And man, I can't believe I was a die hard, especially in my twenties.

kasim:

I was a die hard like iron Rand, reading capitalist, deregulate, everything.

kasim:

And now that I have kids, , I've peeled myself back a little bit.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

So I hate regulation in so many ways.

kasim:

I think that it inhibits growth and opportunity, but , I do see the need now.

kasim:

Because I have a weapon in my hands and you do too.

kasim:

And I see the need for us to say like, Hey, maybe this should have a safety.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

You know what I mean?

kasim:

That was a , crazy departure.

kasim:

But that's how I feel about the new.

micael:

No, no, no, , Mate, that stuff's important.

micael:

Like people come to listen to like these kind of more on the fringe, not

micael:

fringe, but like these thoughts, because you could watch the, filter down

micael:

version Google saying on their videos.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Everything's good, mate.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And then like you actually hear about two guys, like us running agencies, big

micael:

clients, understand the data, understand the implication and like, this is what

micael:

happens, but no one hears this stuff.

micael:

So like you just sharing that mate was really valuable.

micael:

So thank you, cuz I wasn't even aware of like you could, whilst I knew you

micael:

could target websites and keywords.

micael:

I didn't actually kind of think of that.

micael:

Kind of like abusive way or Macia Valion or evil way of going about it.

kasim:

So well, and the thing that you would need to do is as

kasim:

long as you're messaging, isn't matched to the nefarious targeting.

kasim:

And so I'm trying to think about something that would be horrible.

kasim:

This is just a terrible exercise and I'm probably gonna get canceled for this,

kasim:

, Yeah let's say that I sell vacation

kasim:

that are newly diagnosed with cancer.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Because I believe that you're gonna spend more on a heavy vacation.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Cause you don't know what tomorrow looks like.

kasim:

You know what I mean?

kasim:

Like that's the type of thing that's now possible and available and accessible

kasim:

and I think like the ad liaison Twitter account at Google would say like, no, we

kasim:

would never make that targeting available.

kasim:

And I'm like, please stop lying to us at least at a minimum, because

kasim:

all you needed to do is again, just be 15 minutes worth of creative.

kasim:

Like I'm not gonna be able to go right at cancer research, but I can go one standard

kasim:

deviation across and they can't stop it.

kasim:

There's no way that anybody could stop it.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And can only stop it , post it's happened.

micael:

Like they can't stop it before it happens.

micael:

Cuz there's so many.

micael:

Variables of how people would go about it, but like you said, you could be targeting

micael:

ads, finally, wanna start living your life after the recent news you've got.

micael:

And it's like that none of that has a key.

kasim:

You wouldn't even need to say after the recent news, you

kasim:

would just say like, Hey, is it time to take your dream vacation?

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Or, will you ever get another opportunity to go to Ireland?

kasim:

And saying that to me is benign saying that to somebody

kasim:

who's dying of fucking cancer,

kasim:

and, but that's what we're doing.

kasim:

We're Man.

kasim:

I could, you could shift elections.

kasim:

You could change the way people think you could influence.

kasim:

You could indoctrinate folks.

kasim:

I feel like you could increase and, or decrease the propensity for things like

kasim:

strong systemic prejudice with this type of targeting and this messaging.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And.

kasim:

I don't know why there's been a congressional hearing about Facebook.

kasim:

We dragged Zuckerberg out and we threw him in front of the geriatric morons and

kasim:

we had them answer a bunch of questions and Google is so much stronger, so

kasim:

much bigger, so much more powerful.

kasim:

And it's like, we're all just like, all right, it's fine.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

But Google still seems like an innocent, just a search engine was Facebook has

micael:

like, it's a social media, it's in a place where people are engaging with.

micael:

And you're like, you're putting like a lot of visual content in their face.

micael:

A lot of people see Google as just Google search, not as

micael:

YouTube and all these offsets.

micael:

So I think that's why like there's social understanding or perceptions, just

micael:

like, oh, Google, they're not that evil.

micael:

You just go into a website and you write, I need a new pair

micael:

of socks and you see socks.

micael:

They don't actually see like the advanced data that we've got access to, really.

micael:

Deeply target people, especially with these new features now.

micael:

And especially when you've got like the new features, like the data driven being

micael:

rolled out as stock standard conversion tracking, you've got more data points

micael:

now, rather than just being last click, you've got like millions of data points or

micael:

it could be like up to 500,000 per user.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And it's like, that's just places that data and can be

micael:

abused, but it can be used well

micael:

like at the end of the day the product you're selling for your business is good.

micael:

It's a service or it's a good product.

micael:

Like that's why it's actually there for good.

micael:

It's only for when people are trying to sell stuff that is just, not good stuff.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Well, I'm just curious where you got the 500,000 data point metric.

micael:

I got that probably three to six months ago, I think on,

kasim:

I'm not trying to play, got journalism, by the way.

kasim:

Here's, I'll share my field point with you and then maybe

kasim:

you and I can calibrate yeah.

kasim:

On the homepage of Google's YouTube advertising page.

kasim:

Google used to say 72 million demographic and psychographic profiling factors.

kasim:

I actually have a screenshot of this somewhere.

kasim:

So I've been saying that in every keynote presentation that I've ever

kasim:

given, Facebook has 55,000 demographic and psychographic profiling factors.

kasim:

Google has 72 million since then.

kasim:

And this might have been two years ago.

kasim:

I can't find it anywhere.

kasim:

It's been stripped.

kasim:

And I think Google realized.

kasim:

We shouldn't say that, like, maybe we shouldn't like tip our hat.

kasim:

So I've seen some like, obscure references to it in other back alley

kasim:

articles, but Google's cleaned it.

kasim:

And, outside of like one screenshot I have that could, somebody could accuse

kasim:

me of Photoshopping if they wanted to.

kasim:

I can't find it.

kasim:

So I don't know if it's 72, a million.

kasim:

I don't know if it's 500,000.

kasim:

I don't know what their profiling looks like.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

I think 500,000 was based on like a basic search, like a Google search.

micael:

So like there's 500,000 determining factors.

micael:

So when people think like they ad copy and the keyword bit is like the be all

micael:

and end all, it's like, dude, that's like two out of like, oh, so just in

micael:

the search, add delivery catalyst.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

But I, I know that now because of performance max, it's just

micael:

like, things aren't just search anymore when you're layering.

micael:

Like even just, if you've got search and then you layer like

micael:

an audience on it, like that just increases a thousand fold, right?

micael:

In terms every time you layer stuff on or you change the picks, like the

micael:

they're using a Google ads tag and doing.

micael:

Data driven.

micael:

Like, I don't even know Mike, but it would be unlimited at this point.

kasim:

it would almost have to be right.

kasim:

It's like infinite data and I know that's, it almost sounds naive to

kasim:

say that, but I don't think it is.

kasim:

If you think about the impact that can happen, anytime you change a measurement

kasim:

variable, because with that variable, new information can be creative.

kasim:

And the minute you introduce the fact that new information can be created.

kasim:

Now, the information truly is infinite.

kasim:

People think about the data that we're collecting on users as like, oh, this

kasim:

is data that goes in an Excel file.

kasim:

That's not what the data is.

kasim:

It's if Michael drinks enough water then, and now it's like, well, what

kasim:

does that mean for his exercise regimen, his diet, his travel his

kasim:

shoe size, his, you know what I mean?

kasim:

Like how often he goes to the bathroom, like these variables

kasim:

that are interdependent against.

kasim:

Other unknowns.

kasim:

And if I can fill in and, or query one of those unknowns, then I can

kasim:

create new data and I can append that to a prospect or a person.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

So it becomes four dimensional almost, the way that we can look at this

micael:

and it's beyond even just what we're searching for.

micael:

I've like, I've spoke to just some developer friends, and this might be

micael:

a bit of a conspiracy NUS out there.

micael:

But if you're using Google Chrome, that is a Google product

micael:

that is scraping your data.

micael:

So if you're logged in on Google Chrome on like your, your email address,

micael:

and then you're in your, searching around stuff, if you go to your bank,

micael:

you'll scrape, it'll just scrape how much money on your bank app?

micael:

Like they will know, like they're not just getting this like, when

micael:

you can do the financial tiers in America, top 10%, top 20%.

micael:

They're not getting that because you're looking at like Louis

micael:

Viton bags, they're doing it because they can scrape data from.

micael:

That, and that would be having third party data input as well,

kasim:

dude.

kasim:

The point that you just made, it would be harder to build a product

kasim:

that didn't catalog that data.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

You would actually have to go out of your way, because if you think

kasim:

about the way that a browser has to resolve HTML, like HTMLs, and in

kasim:

out Gmails , in out process, right?

kasim:

It's like, Hey, I have to give you the information.

kasim:

And then you have to resolve this information.

kasim:

And then that information is, appended to this user.

kasim:

You would have to go out of your way to not track that data.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And this is a organization with like the, basically the effectively, this stated of

kasim:

intent of tracking all data all the time.

kasim:

For all reasons.

micael:

The thing is, I'm just gonna say this, I'm not a

micael:

hundred percent sure on that.

micael:

That's not my opinion.

micael:

That's what I've been told.

micael:

So Google don't come after me.

micael:

But this is,

kasim:

you know,

micael:

this is, we're both gonna end up dead tomorrow, like shot in the back

micael:

of the head and throw ourselves off the.

micael:

I'm too far away, man.

micael:

I'm in Melbourne Australia.

micael:

So like they have to get a boat over here.

micael:

Like this is the thing, whilst we're mostly talking about Google ads,

micael:

this is the Google data set that is at the end of the day, gonna be

micael:

used to filter into the Google ads.

micael:

So like whilst you and I and customers get to leverage it and win from it,

micael:

people need to understand the importance of like how much it can actually like

micael:

take away from them in terms of their free, like, and you said like it can

micael:

swing elections or social prejudices.

micael:

Like this data can be used in ways that whilst we never use it, cuz we're just

micael:

like running advertising for businesses spending 10 K to 500 K a month.

micael:

We're not gonna be using this for like political election.

micael:

So it's like, it doesn't impact us, but a lot of people, there are

micael:

opportunities there for it to be abused.

micael:

So don't do that.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

It's my PSA.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

So I'm gonna get us back on track and I'm the one that got us off track.

micael:

So forgive me.

micael:

But you've got, you've got a badass give here this one page performance max guide.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And if you're watching this, Michael has prepared a gift for our community.

kasim:

I don't let anybody on the channel unless I'm like, look,

kasim:

you gotta give something huge.

kasim:

And so we've got this one page guide and you can download the one page guide by

kasim:

visiting the link in the description.

kasim:

There's no cost, right?

kasim:

Nah, never, never gotta give for free.

kasim:

, give.

kasim:

Yeah, give . I'm of the same opinion, your approach to performance max is different

kasim:

than my approached your performance max.

kasim:

Yes.

kasim:

And so let put on the boxing gloves mate.

kasim:

That's what I was say.

kasim:

Like let's, let's, let's fight this out and for our, for our

kasim:

listeners and our Watchers, cuz this is converted to a podcast too.

kasim:

And I dunno if you know that I'll be the first one to say that.

kasim:

Nobody knows.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Like what Google says to do is wrong.

kasim:

We know that that's the one thing maybe we do know is generally speaking, but

kasim:

then like, as far as best practices, what we've done is we've gotten

kasim:

together with our team and said like, all right, what have we seen so far?

kasim:

And generally speaking, what are the rules?

kasim:

And I imagine you've, walked through a very similar intellectual exercise.

kasim:

Yeah, definitely.

kasim:

So this is based off what we've seen.

kasim:

So I'm gonna start poking holes.

kasim:

Okay.

kasim:

And then you fight back.

kasim:

Okay.

micael:

Have about, have about this before you poke holes.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Let me just start off with the problem with performance.

micael:

Max is no one knows what works.

micael:

The other challenge I've faced is I'm getting people asking me

micael:

a lot about it and I realized.

micael:

There's a lot of content out there, but it's kind of like, for example,

micael:

you are posting so much value, but that's valuable to me as an advertiser.

micael:

If you've just got the stock standard marketing manager or

micael:

someone running their own eCommerce brand, it can be quite overwhelming.

micael:

Oh.

micael:

And like a lot of the time, it's not like, your stuff's like the, when you

micael:

do the 80, 20, yours is like the top 10%.

micael:

They'll get you more.

micael:

But most people can't even get like that top 80 to 90%.

micael:

So why I did this, this is not like a be all and end all, this is what I do.

micael:

It's more like, if you were just trying to set this up, just do this.

micael:

And just like trust that this will work.

micael:

And then if you need optimization, you either speak to yourself,

micael:

myself, or someone else.

micael:

But like, if you're just wanting to get into this without being overwhelmed

micael:

with like the abundance of articles and videos, it's like, that's what I call it.

micael:

The one page guide for like beginners, because it really

micael:

is just for someone who's like.

micael:

I wanna set this up before smart.

micael:

Shopping's done.

micael:

I just want it done in like a really simple way that I know itself in a way,

micael:

so I'm not worried or stressed about it.

micael:

So yeah, I know that you and John are absolute, and just like my Stros of

micael:

the advance and the real granularity, which is so important for a lot of

micael:

clients, but most people at the end of the day just need it set up and

micael:

they're getting caught like, oh, should I be segmenting you things out?

micael:

It's no, just set it up, follow these best practices.

micael:

Let it run for the time that I recommend.

micael:

And then, if you need advanced segmentation based on the data,

micael:

that's when you go to the next stage, this is a good scaffolding.

micael:

That's, that's where it starts from this.

micael:

Isn't like, what I do, this is where I start with clients,

micael:

or this is what I recommend.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

This is PMAX one.

micael:

Oh, Definitely.

micael:

That's exactly.

micael:

It's one.

micael:

Oh, one's one one for beginners.

micael:

We're operating at like 3 0 2, but this is 1 0 1.

kasim:

And on the, guide you say for e-com, so this isn't

kasim:

necessarily for lead gen.

micael:

Yeah, definitely.

micael:

So I just outta transparency, I've only run PAX on eCommerce businesses.

micael:

I've done

micael:

. kasim: It just means that your life

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Well, that's the thing such this is really, yeah.

micael:

That's the other thing.

micael:

This is for eCommerce.

micael:

I've done a little bit for like some clients on PMAX for lead gen.

micael:

This was in the early days.

micael:

It didn't click.

micael:

They were very sensitive to cost lead.

micael:

So I just had to turn it off before, like it started blowing out.

micael:

I know you guys use it for your clients for Legion.

kasim:

not with consistent success.

kasim:

It's very much like we have a couple of clients where it's the

kasim:

most amazing thing that we've ever seen and it's what gives us hope.

kasim:

But then we have clients where.

kasim:

Wow.

kasim:

I didn't realize how much a Google's traffic was bought in click form

kasim:

and buying a product requires a catalytic event that can't be spoofed,

kasim:

which means they give you money.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Filling out a form, scheduling an appointment, download lead magnet,

kasim:

all that shit can be spoofed.

kasim:

And I saw a study.

kasim:

I posted a video on this that said that like 70 to 80% of the traffic that

kasim:

people are seeing, this was a, this was a university study by the, I think York

kasim:

university, 70 to 80% of the traffic they saw was either bought or click

kasim:

form traffic, which I had no idea that Google had that problem until we started

kasim:

running PAX for Legion specifically.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Because it works no matter what, but then you get to the other end and it's

kasim:

like, oh, these leads are horrible.

kasim:

So we have some tricks, like, raising the, bar, but there's no guarantee.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

. I'd love to hear some more about that maybe on one of your videos,

micael:

but let's jump back to the, the PAX.

micael:

Guide, because I know you just showed me before you guys are

micael:

gonna be releasing your own one.

micael:

So you wanted to show me your one to let me know that

kasim:

you're not stealing from yours.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

So here's , the gloves are on now.

kasim:

And, my job here is to see if I can make Michael cry.

kasim:

You say set up one performance max campaign, which I absolutely agree with.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Don't set up dual campaigns unless there's a very strong,

kasim:

strategic reason to do that.

kasim:

But then you say one asset group.

kasim:

Yep.

kasim:

And that's my first arrow is what we're telling people is you need one asset group

kasim:

for every product category times every

kasim:

So if you have five product categories and five audiences, you

kasim:

need 25 asset groups at a minimum.

kasim:

So yeah.

micael:

Yeah, mate.

micael:

Well, once again, like when I set up for clients, I'm definitely doing

micael:

more than that, but a lot of the time.

micael:

If people are like I've had clients and I was, this is why we hooked up this chat.

micael:

I was just messaging about some of the updates.

micael:

I've got clients who have gone from 20 K in revenue for like, before they

micael:

started working with me, they were making 4k in revenue, with smart

micael:

shopping optimization, we got to 20 K.

micael:

And just with like this smart shopping thing not smart shopping performance

micael:

max, we got them to 50 K ad spends the same return on ad spends higher.

micael:

Now, whilst this advanced segmentation can be great for

micael:

different types of businesses.

micael:

I'm just trying to think of the person who's watching this.

micael:

Who's only spending two to 15 K a month.

micael:

Simplicity is key.

micael:

I always believe that the more you segment, the more you need to manage,

micael:

the more you may need to manage, the less likely you're gonna manage it.

micael:

So it's about like really balancing the scales, cuz like at the end of the

micael:

day, there's still a human requirement.

micael:

I have a client that I was messaging about.

micael:

That's gone from.

micael:

Before I was working with them making 30 K.

micael:

And when we're on smart shopping within a few months or up to

micael:

80 K now it's performance max.

micael:

They did a hundred K and this month they're tracking for 120

micael:

K from eCommerce, same ad spend.

micael:

So the return on ad spends gone from it was 20 K ad spend.

micael:

So it's gone from 40 K.

micael:

So it's 200% to like 80 K 400%.

micael:

And now it's up to near like tracking to 120 K this month,

micael:

same ad spend same strategy.

micael:

And that one as well is just one campaign, one asset group, no way.

micael:

So like the thing is with that one, it's been running

micael:

for about two to three months.

micael:

So it has a, an abundance of data in there as well.

micael:

Like the reason why in the section at the bottom, I say optimization

micael:

is just like, leave it for.

micael:

Three to four weeks.

micael:

I try to leave it for like six to eight weeks.

micael:

If I can, if something's going really wrong, I'll get intervened.

micael:

But like, I need to trust that the algorithm is working, cuz it always

micael:

has for all of my e-commerce clients.

micael:

You just gotta give it enough time.

micael:

We've never seen performance Maxs, not work for an e-com client that had

micael:

a performing campaign outside of PAX.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

So outta curiosity, the client that you talked about that had one asset group,

micael:

one campaign skilled up to 120 K were they previously performing inside of

micael:

smart shopping or standard shopping?

micael:

Yeah, they were, but they were only getting like, a three 5400%

micael:

return on ad spent, which for them, their goal was before we

micael:

took them on their goal was 200%.

micael:

So we already doubled it now we've like tripled it.

micael:

So it's just like, it's definitely getting more out of what's there in the market.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Now the thing is,

kasim:

I wish I could tell you turning customers, just

kasim:

outta curiosity, have you seen.

kasim:

I have that data.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And the reason I bring it up is because we've seen performance, max does way

kasim:

better with new customer acquisition, but it's, really bad at the remarketing

kasim:

game that smart shopping used to play.

kasim:

So that's interesting.

kasim:

All right, I'm gonna keep going.

kasim:

You say high quality creative add images and videos.

kasim:

Great note.

kasim:

Are you using the Google created videos?

kasim:

Have you tested those?

, micael:

For some clients, like that's, one of the issues with like a lot of clients

, micael:

is they just don't have the assets.

, micael:

So that's something that I'd need to like really start to push on them because

, micael:

when you're making this much money and you're getting a great return from

, micael:

those Google videos, you're like, fuck.

, micael:

If I just had like a better video, we could have made an extra 10

, micael:

or 20 K this month just from like small things like that.

, micael:

Yeah.

, micael:

So most of the time it is, yes.

, micael:

Unfortunately I'd hate to say that it's like a sophisticated

, micael:

marketer, but it's like, that's all I could do at the moment.

, micael:

, I'm a Google ads guy.

, micael:

I'm not a videographer.

kasim:

No.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And I don't, I don't wanna get into the creative game either.

kasim:

We've been testing Google's videos against the client creative videos

kasim:

and Google's videos are winning.

micael:

Yeah, my, well that's the thing is like a lot of them are

micael:

going well, that's the problem.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

It's just like, how is this happening?

micael:

We have clients that have like, invested real money, like, well into the six

micael:

figures for dynamic media creation.

micael:

And then we test that against Google's PowerPoint presentations and Google's

micael:

presentations are what I think.

kasim:

I know why that is, but , it's an interesting thing to see.

kasim:

. micael: Why do you think it's a

kasim:

Like it's so bad that people notice?

kasim:

No, maybe that could be it too.

kasim:

I think it's a technical issue.

kasim:

Actually.

kasim:

I think it's a distribution.

kasim:

I remember responsive search ads had 30% more reach than, expanded text ads.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And a responsive search ads were easier for Google to distribute because if

kasim:

you think about Google's inventory, Just practically speaking, it's based

kasim:

off of size placement, distribution.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Proportions.

kasim:

So if your video is scaled to like, 16 by nine or whatever, Google can only

kasim:

ever put it in a 16 by nine window.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

It can drop it.

kasim:

Can't edit a Google created video can be placed literally anywhere.

kasim:

So if expanded text ads had 30% more reach, I think the Google created

kasim:

videos could have like 10 X more reach.

kasim:

So I think it just has to do with Google's ability to place that inventory, which

kasim:

means as more people adopt PAX, I actually think that performance will

kasim:

go down because the inventory will become more sparse and more expensive.

kasim:

Definitely.

kasim:

So, yeah.

kasim:

Anyway,

micael:

that's why like, this is a lot of our results that we're achieving is also.

micael:

First to market gains also, whilst we're also learning with the algorithm being

micael:

very off, like, the smart shopping years ago was horrible now smart.

micael:

Shopping's like amazing.

micael:

But like everyone's capitalizing smart.

micael:

Shopping's the best let's sunset it.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And then, so it's the same here.

micael:

Like we are just, we are getting cheaper media now, which is amazing.

micael:

Like media buying is more cost effective.

micael:

Obviously the cost per click on the cost for a YouTube viewer,

micael:

a display banner click is cheaper than a Google search.

micael:

But at the same time, if it's, the data's showing it overall,

micael:

the average is cheaper, which means you get higher returns.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

. I've got a, buddy he's in a mastermind with me.

kasim:

He does personal injury attorneys.

kasim:

He says he's getting 50 cent cross per clicks.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

I remember you signed that when the cost click is, if I didn't know if he wasn't

kasim:

in war room, I wouldn't believe him.

kasim:

I'd be like, there's no way.

kasim:

It's insane.

kasim:

Goal and bid strategy, maximize conversion value.

kasim:

Not maximize conversions, which egg on our face.

kasim:

We were telling people maximize conversions.

kasim:

Mm.

kasim:

Because it was an easier goal, but, it proved more difficult to

kasim:

optimize once the campaign performed.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

But you're saying set a target row as kind of like an asterisk there.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

If I launch a can, this is just me.

kasim:

This is once again, this is for the 1 0 1 person who just

kasim:

needs to get something set up.

kasim:

I'll set up a PAX campaign to say maximize conversion value.

kasim:

And then I'll let that data come in for three to four weeks to benchmark.

kasim:

And then I'll set it

kasim:

if that's not working, I'll actually usually do maximize conversions.

kasim:

Cause I'm like, just get the sales.

kasim:

Right.

kasim:

Just get it.

kasim:

I don't care how much, just get some data that we've got some data

kasim:

points on it the reason I just put, target rice in there is at least

kasim:

you just got a bit of control there.

kasim:

So we didn't know this somebody in the Google advance team told us that if

kasim:

you don't set a target row as Google automatically sets it for you 200%,

micael:

is that ridden anywhere?

micael:

Or is that just like a bit of a,

kasim:

like everything that they do?

kasim:

There's a, yeah.

kasim:

Well, what was weird is it used to be, I think it used to be

kasim:

150% and then they changed it.

kasim:

So if you don't apply a target row, if you don't apply a TRO as

kasim:

then Google sets a minimum of 200%.

kasim:

Okay.

kasim:

So what I like to tell people is especially for like consumables

kasim:

Heavy retention, high LTB.

kasim:

If you're breaking, even you're making money.

kasim:

So if you're, if your Teros can be below 200%, then set it lower.

kasim:

But I don't like a TROs because I feel like it limits learning.

kasim:

I want the machine, especially in the early stage, I wanted to just

kasim:

go out and like figure things out.

micael:

I agree there.

micael:

And that's why like, but the, the other challenges I've got some

micael:

clients that we launch PAX and it just kind of gets like a result.

micael:

That's like, if we're getting 400%, it'll deliver like 130.

micael:

I'm like, this is unacceptable.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

What that like actually go like, yo, you've got a job to do here.

micael:

I'm just not letting you like.

micael:

Do whatever you want.

micael:

This is more just once or 1 0 1 recommendations.

micael:

The thing is you gotta use your brain.

micael:

You don't put in a thousand percent if you're not getting 150%.

micael:

Right.

micael:

I think the argument that you could make where I would concede the ground

micael:

is when we don't put a Tero as it's, because we're observing a machine

micael:

we're actually planning on optimizing.

micael:

If you're just building a campaign to place set and forget it because you are

micael:

building your very first PAX campaign, then a Tero rise is gonna protect you

micael:

from some pretty expensive mistakes.

micael:

Yeah, exactly.

micael:

Once again, this is for the business owner marketing manager

micael:

who just needs to do it themselves.

micael:

Like this is , the dumies guide to just setting up a PAX campaign, like

micael:

click, click, click, click, click.

micael:

Okay.

micael:

I'm done.

micael:

I can just chill.

micael:

I set my budget.

micael:

Get on with it.

micael:

So the value bombs you drop for the ad creative, I think are freaking awesome.

micael:

Yeah, this is I'm probably gonna go shed.

micael:

Oh yeah.

micael:

And so the other thing about ad creative is like my partner.

micael:

She isn't an outstanding designer.

micael:

She helps me with this stuff.

micael:

Like, you've gotta invest in like good creative now.

micael:

And you do want your assets to stand out because like, if you don't have high

micael:

vibrant, oh, that's in the next part down.

micael:

But I'm just talking about the cuz you mentioned about

micael:

the ad creative high intent.

micael:

Creative will be what stands out.

micael:

So you just can't be like, oh, I've got like, I've done all these settings

micael:

and there's upload a few photos.

micael:

You really need to make sure that the creative you inputting

micael:

to the machine is actually great because that's what the human sees.

micael:

That's what the human clicks on.

micael:

Mm.

micael:

Some of this stuff you're putting in for Google, some of it you

micael:

actually gotta put in for the human at the end of day for people.

micael:

We're having a hard time with clients that don't have

micael:

lifestyle images for that reason.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

A product image is a sterile product image.

micael:

You want a person using the product.

micael:

That's.

micael:

Last section optimization.

micael:

Don't make any changes for two weeks.

micael:

We didn't talk about the middle section creative copy and signals.

micael:

I got the creative.

micael:

Oh, I was looking at all.

micael:

Three of those is those are creative bullets.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Audience signals start simple.

micael:

Using basically your existing customers is the way it looks like.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

All website, traffic, past purchase, conversions card,

micael:

abandonment, customer list.

micael:

The reason I like this is because performance Macs, an audience target

micael:

is a very polite suggestion, and then it's gonna go off on its own.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And so you're saying start right in the center of your nucleus

micael:

and then let Google expand.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

I think the other reason I said that is it's so easy to everyone

micael:

put their creative hat on and says like, oh, I'll just look at all

micael:

these random InMarket audiences.

micael:

And then they're just like shoving data into the machine that they don't

micael:

actually have any past data to recommend.

micael:

Maybe if you jump into Google analytics and you can actually have

micael:

a look at your InMarket audience or affinity audiences and see their

micael:

revenue, that's attributed to it.

micael:

You can use that and port it across.

micael:

But a lot of the time it's just like put your own first party or

micael:

first party data in like website, traffic, previous client purchases.

micael:

So at least, the qualities to a certain extent.

micael:

So then when Google starts looking around, they're looking for people who are like

micael:

these people, once you start chucking things like people who are interested

micael:

in cashew nuts, because I sell nuts.

micael:

It's like, yeah, but you could have someone who likes beer

micael:

or someone who's like a hiker.

micael:

Like they're very two different things.

micael:

So you really wanna like focus on your own data first, once again, in

micael:

the future, you can always do the advanced stuff, optimize segment out.

micael:

But like, just to start off with just keep it simple.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Well, if you have one asset group too, I think that's

micael:

really sounded advice is yeah.

micael:

You're, right down.

micael:

It's smack D in the middle of your target.

micael:

The thing is, I would love to say, oh, you gotta do all these things and

micael:

make it sound so advanced and crazy.

micael:

But like, the data that I consistently see is like, when you start off like

micael:

this, it goes well, and then you can start to optimize and segment out.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And it gives you somewhere to go.

micael:

Yeah, definitely.

micael:

Mate.

micael:

Yeah, and it's garbage and garbage out.

micael:

Like if you're putting garbage data or data points in, you're only

micael:

gonna get a certain amount out.

micael:

But if you're only putting like good quality, high intent data, high intent

micael:

shopping feed that you're using high intent, creative, that the machine is

micael:

starting, with its best opportunity, it's like giving a child like good education

micael:

and good nutrition, that like in its life, it's got more of a probability

micael:

of having I'm an American Michael.

micael:

We don't do either of those things.

micael:

So, yeah.

micael:

Sorry.

micael:

Sorry.

micael:

Trigger, trigger warning guys.

micael:

Sorry, sorry.

micael:

I just pissed off half my constituency.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Optimization.

micael:

I've noticed that you spelled optimization with an S.

micael:

Oh, cool.

micael:

I think there's also a, a Z or a Z as I call it in Australia.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

I was just, I think there's two ways we spell it.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Do you do y'all do color with an O U R yeah.

micael:

Okay.

micael:

That's yeah,

micael:

I feel like there's so much and we drive on the left side of the road and we

micael:

have to vote and do you have to vote?

micael:

Is that true?

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Compulsory voting.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

I'm actually glad we don't have compulsory voting here.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

Optimization the most crucial part.

micael:

Don't make any changes for three to four weeks.

micael:

Is that the initial build out or is that the optimization schedule?

micael:

That's like once you've set this up.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And you put all the right, you put your budgets in.

micael:

You've got all the assets.

micael:

Just leave it.

micael:

It's just pretty much just like, just leave it..

micael:

, this is the biggest thing.

micael:

People set this up, but they don't actually know when they should

micael:

start making changes or not.

micael:

, is it a day, a week, two weeks, three weeks, four weeks.

micael:

Like I've had to set myself all like three to four weeks.

micael:

And a lot of the time the results, the amazing results come from

micael:

like six to eight weeks, which you guys are recommending in

micael:

that doc that you've showed me.

micael:

Yep.

micael:

It's like, this is really just more of like, plus your conversion lag.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And this is the thing, this is, this is a rule to stop the

micael:

human messing up the machine.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

It's like the machine will do its job, but like the market is ego or

micael:

the someone who's like, I don't know if this working, the reactive person

micael:

will go in and start changing budgets.

micael:

We'll start changing like cost per like the ROAS goals or like changing

micael:

goals that then it's essentially just like ruining the algorithm.

micael:

Well, you'd reset it.

micael:

And then you're right back where you started.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

And that's the thing it's like, how do you.

micael:

Because right now, we're basically saying, Hey, give me money.

micael:

I'm gonna build this thing and then I'm not gonna do anything.

micael:

And then six weeks from now, I'm gonna do another thing.

micael:

Like how, are you articulating that to clients?

micael:

It's well with like the data and the dashboards, like if you're starting

micael:

to get the results and you're just communicating regularly and you

micael:

actually just set the expectation.

micael:

Yeah.

micael:

It takes about like, we front load the work with, like, I always say to clients,

micael:

we act fast on new strategies and ideas and we're slow to make the next decision.

micael:

So if we need exo executing account, we do it today or tomorrow.

micael:

And then we give it 14 to 21 days just on even a standard or

micael:

other campaign just to get data.

micael:

Cuz I need, we always need time.

micael:

So it's just about saying like, look for this, you just need a bit more time.

micael:

That's how it is.

micael:

I show other client data or just like snapshots or just case studies and they

micael:

go, okay, like it's just once again, it's that peace of mind thing, like knowing

micael:

that I've got the experience or you've got the experience, we've got data to support

micael:

it and you just communicate clearly.

micael:

And directly, it's not that hard to sell.

micael:

Cause if they trust you, they're gonna trust you full stop.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

That's well said.

kasim:

You're just like Nara, otherwise that no, you know what?

kasim:

I think it might be.

kasim:

I think it might be a communication issue within my, cm team because

kasim:

we're hyper communicative.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

We have the three CS, it solutions eight and I'm obsessed with communication.

kasim:

And our team is used to being able to deliver activities as updates.

kasim:

Yes.

kasim:

So , , the goal is to communicate with the client once a week at a minimum

kasim:

for lower spends and then, twice a week up to daily for high spends.

kasim:

And now the Sams are like, well, what do we say?

kasim:

Because you're basically like, Hey, we're still watching.

kasim:

We're still waiting.

kasim:

We're still whatever.

kasim:

And , it's a paradigm shift where instead of this, these

kasim:

are the optimizations we made.

kasim:

Cuz , I mean old school campaigns, you were truly in there.

kasim:

Daily for a high spend campaign, or at least every three

kasim:

days at an absolute minimum.

kasim:

And there's, search term reports and keyword editions and

kasim:

geographic expansions or whatever.

kasim:

And now it's, here's what we're seeing.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And that, paradigm shift is the thing that I think for new clients that are

kasim:

coming on, we've done a really good job managing expectation, but you've got

kasim:

clients that have been with you for years.

kasim:

I have clients that have been with us for years that are used to seeing like,

kasim:

oh three days ago, we did this and now it's like, we're not doing anything.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And, and what's really weird about that is there's more work.

kasim:

Not only are we not doing anything, but it's actually harder because

kasim:

I have to monitor notate plan.

kasim:

I ideate figure out how all this is gonna go in.

kasim:

And then we do our, optimizations in three week sprints.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

So I don't know.

kasim:

I could use your help with that., it is just a change in

kasim:

communication of going from.

kasim:

What updates and optimizations to insights.

kasim:

And like I was saying like last interview and this one, like when clients start

kasim:

paying you more, they're not paying to go.

kasim:

Like I push these buttons.

kasim:

They, they want to know insights.

kasim:

So if you've got an eCommerce client with 10,000, 50,000 skews, you might go

kasim:

look, we've launched this PAX campaign.

kasim:

And we've already noticing that these types of products or these product

kasim:

types are getting more the data in analytics is suggesting, or even if

kasim:

those insights are available on the insights tab of certain audiences,

kasim:

you can start just giving updates.

kasim:

Hey, we're noticing that PAX is actually delivering these products more.

kasim:

The products that usually deliver very well aren't yet.

kasim:

So we, in the next few weeks, we're gonna, if they don't sell,

kasim:

we'll start to segment them out.

kasim:

Cause at the end of the day, you've still gotta like align

kasim:

PAX with the company strategy.

kasim:

And if they've got like a high selling product or range, That's not selling.

kasim:

You'll need to segment that out at own.

kasim:

Right.

kasim:

So when PEX, it's funny, cuz somebody called us the other day.

kasim:

They called us the performance max agency now, which I don't

kasim:

want that to be the case.

kasim:

I think that's how it's coming across me of all the videos.

kasim:

Second bullet point is you already touched on it.

kasim:

It's the insights tab, which by the way is miracle of PAX.

kasim:

Like it's a gift from baby Jesus.

kasim:

I can't believe we have it.

kasim:

It's so cool.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Like I I've, I've found when we get to the advanced side of like

kasim:

the optimizational segmenting out.

kasim:

I might even just have a catchall products and then just segment

kasim:

out based on one audience or in market that they've recommended.

kasim:

And let's just say, I've got a client that's getting 450% ROAS or 500%.

kasim:

If I segment this out based on like a month's worth or two months

kasim:

worth of like inside data, that audience, when it's split out

kasim:

will actually get to six or 700%.

kasim:

So that's when, like, when the segmentation works really well,

kasim:

it's like, when you've got like this one data source, one asset group

kasim:

getting like your high quality data coming in, running for a while.

kasim:

And then when you've actually got like, yeah, and then you split it out and

kasim:

then it just keeps growing on itself.

kasim:

A lot of the times people just get , too sold on the idea of

kasim:

segmentation before they have the data.

kasim:

Like I've worked at agencies that used to do the Scag model

kasim:

or do all this crazy stuff.

kasim:

And it's like, you don't even know what keywords convert, just put

kasim:

them in like themed as ad groups.

kasim:

Get the data and then you start splitting out.

kasim:

But so many people wanna segment before they get the data.

kasim:

And then they're spent like 90% of the time in the client's

kasim:

money on stuff that didn't work.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And then at the end of the day, Google doesn't wanna serve like segment two

kasim:

segmented out stuff from the start.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

That's the interesting insight.

kasim:

I feel like Google's blue sky is exactly what you're saying is that we would launch

kasim:

a campaign unencumbered, no targeting, and then just follow their insights.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

So step three is expansion is in market audiences.

kasim:

Man, I'm obsessed with Google's custom audiences.

kasim:

Have you played with that at all?

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Yes.

kasim:

Real just how, how deep it dives.

kasim:

That's the only other place on this whole doc that I'd fight

kasim:

you on is before InMarket.

kasim:

I like custom.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Depending on the client, I guess this is for beginners.

kasim:

Just remember.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

For the beginners.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

No, you do a good job reminding me that.

kasim:

And that's that four, this is exactly what we teach.

kasim:

When you're ready to boost your budget.

kasim:

It's 10 to 20% target row as increased per week.

kasim:

10% budget per day or 10, I guess ours is a little bit different than that.

kasim:

It's 10 to 20% budget week over week mm-hmm . And so you're doing

kasim:

a 10% budget per day or 10 to 20% target row as increased per week,

kasim:

depending on whether or not we're going for scale or performance.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

That makes sense.

kasim:

The goal at the end of the day is like, regardless of what the ratios

kasim:

are, when you do it is baby steps.

kasim:

Don't go from a hundred to $500 overnight, or don't go from 200% rows to 500%.

kasim:

Cuz like that's unrealistic.

kasim:

The other issue is like, you need to figure on your goal is your goal

kasim:

scale or return on ad spend or like profitability cuz so many people

kasim:

go, I want scale and profitability.

kasim:

And whilst that does happen for some businesses, some of the times

kasim:

a lot of people just go like, let's just say the old version of

kasim:

like cost per acquisition on lead.

kasim:

They're getting $50 lead and they're like, oh we need more leads.

kasim:

I'll give you another 10 grand and they expect like, X amount

kasim:

more, but you're like, no, no.

kasim:

There's like a increase in cost.

kasim:

Cuz when you start scaling more, you're not getting the same type of traffic.

kasim:

You're gonna have to go after more broader keywords.

kasim:

And it's the same here.

kasim:

Like you wanting to scale this, then you run the risk of return going down

kasim:

and just not getting the same results.

kasim:

So it's like, that's why you gotta baby step it.

kasim:

So you're not like disturbing the algorithm overnight.

kasim:

Well, and it's self-love inflation too, because as you scale, as you spend

kasim:

more, you're spending more into this ecosystem, which means you are causing

kasim:

the traffic to be more expensive.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Especially if you have one other competitor.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

You probably have more, but if you have one other competitor, then it's this one

kasim:

plus one equals three race to the top.

kasim:

Yeah, this is awesome, man.

kasim:

So if people wanna download this, you can go to market lead.com.au/pax.

kasim:

Yep.

kasim:

Link in the description of the video.

kasim:

You are Michael Naline.

kasim:

How do people follow you?

kasim:

I'm on LinkedIn.

kasim:

I post on LinkedIn.

kasim:

I keep it pretty simple.

kasim:

My agency's a referral only.

kasim:

So I don't really do any outbound marketing or advertising.

kasim:

I just jump on here, have a chat with you or post some stuff on LinkedIn.

kasim:

So that's it.

kasim:

You can go to my website, but it's pretty bare bones only got one up just

kasim:

so I could actually launch this ebook.

kasim:

So the last thing mate is I know we chatted it prior was I had a

kasim:

few questions that people tend to ask me and I thought we could just

kasim:

quickly do like a last minute value bomb on like those quick questions.

kasim:

Is this the Google sheet in the email?

kasim:

Yeah, I reckon we could quickly snap through them in like five minutes.

kasim:

What do you, what do you recommend?

kasim:

I'm ready.

kasim:

Let's do it.

kasim:

Let's do it.

kasim:

What's the biggest or most common mistake you see in the accounts you take over.

kasim:

Do you wanna go first or I can go it's conversion tracking.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Mate.

kasim:

A hundred percent conversion tracking.

kasim:

And once that's like done, it's just like.

kasim:

Rubbish traffic being at improper settings or just like weak, negative

kasim:

keywords or just improper keyword setups.

kasim:

But yeah, the conversion tracking is I just picked up a client that

kasim:

was spending 10 to 20 K a month.

kasim:

And this, they, no one was managing it for six years cuz their art last

kasim:

agency went outta business and like their goals were just smart goals.

kasim:

I'm like there was no conversion tracking.

kasim:

Mm I'm like what the hell is going on?

kasim:

So obviously I took on the client we're spending about yeah.

kasim:

10 to 20 K all the tracking set up dynamic call tracking lead forms.

kasim:

And that only took me like half an hour just through GTM.

kasim:

But geez, like it is one of the biggest issues.

kasim:

And even if people are tracking, the tracking's done

kasim:

properly wrong or incorrect.

kasim:

Well anytime I see somebody who's done it themselves and they mess up

kasim:

tracking, I find that forgivable.

kasim:

What infuriates me is when I see it from agencies.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Is there a great, big, massive, a hundred million dollar valuation

kasim:

agencies that we've taken the campaigns over and their conversion

kasim:

tracking was it was a train wreck.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

I think the issue, there is a lot of people they see Google ads as its

kasim:

own thing and tracking as a separate thing, because it's more development.

kasim:

It's like, if you just learn GTM in 20 minutes, you can set up all the tracking.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

At a hundred percent for any type of business.

kasim:

It's not that high take anyone at Christmas's course.

kasim:

We don't do technical implementation all their plumbing.

kasim:

Like we'll give them a punch list.

kasim:

If they want us to do it, we charge 'em more than it's worth

kasim:

because I don't want the work.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

But it's not hard.

kasim:

It's just tedious.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Second one, the common misconceptions about Google ads.

kasim:

I reckon the biggest one I'm noticing now is like, there's a bit of sentiment

kasim:

in the market that Google ads is too expensive or it doesn't work.

kasim:

It doesn't work because there's a lot of people doing it.

kasim:

Who aren't good at it.

kasim:

They do it.

kasim:

Like, I know so many web developers who just do it because they need to

kasim:

get some income after their sale.

kasim:

I, I just think the mismanagement of it's made people lose trust on it.

kasim:

And that it's expensive.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

That is expensive.

kasim:

Cause it works like I've got clients that get 10 X ROAS on like they

kasim:

spend or like make millions of dollars just from the lead gen.

kasim:

Like it's expensive cuz it works.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

I like that.

kasim:

What are your thoughts?

kasim:

Workflows to the competent?

kasim:

I think the biggest misconception about Google ads now is click to purchase.

kasim:

People think that when someone clicks they're going to buy.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And if they click and they don't buy that for them as a disconnect.

kasim:

And that was probably true five, 10 years ago.

kasim:

But now yeah, a click is, an introduction to a brand and Google's

kasim:

operating off of a 500 click paradigm.

kasim:

Yes.

kasim:

That's great.

kasim:

Based on the accounts you've inherited, what are the easy setting

kasim:

changes you always spot and dress.

kasim:

Oh, like the settings, like just come down to just things like

kasim:

turning off the automatic extensions turning off auto ad writing making

kasim:

sure keyword types are right.

kasim:

What are some of the other ones like turning off display network on the,

kasim:

when you're doing search ads, I'm just trying to think some stop for you display

kasim:

with search, I think is hysterical.

kasim:

Yeah, the auto apply is a really big one for us, obviously.

kasim:

And, Google's so sneaky about where they house, all that BS.

kasim:

Yeah, man.

kasim:

And it's so hard to opt out of it as well.

kasim:

Like you just can't press opt out.

kasim:

You gotta give a reason.

kasim:

It's like, you're just trying to put barriers of friction between me.

kasim:

Well, they Reen enable it.

kasim:

Have you noticed that that every, every six months it'll click back

kasim:

on it, with I campaign upgrades or whatever, we've seen it to where I know

kasim:

for a fact, cause all of our legacy clients we'd opt out of everything and

kasim:

then you, have a, I don't know what.

kasim:

Any massive upgrade and you go back and they've, re-enabled some of

kasim:

these automatic updates is insane.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Biggest changes to Google ads in the last 12 months.

kasim:

And where's it all heading?

kasim:

I reckon just PAX.

kasim:

Like I think the last chat we had was I was pretty much on the, like I said, I

kasim:

love the old ways of go doing Google ads.

kasim:

Cuz what worked two years ago worked five or 10 years ago.

kasim:

Like everything's changing now.

kasim:

We're coming to like a data signal point first rather than keyword first.

kasim:

So like when you got shopping campaigns, even search campaigns are using other

kasim:

things more than just the keyword.

kasim:

So I think it's moving beyond that.

kasim:

So quality data's gonna be the most important thing.

kasim:

That's where I say it's going.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

The keyless future.

kasim:

What do you think could kill Google?

kasim:

Where does Google get you CED?

kasim:

I think it maybe just like by an antitrust legislations, like

kasim:

being like, breaking down their monopoly I don't really foresee.

kasim:

A competitor coming up, cuz even the next competitor isn't as big,

kasim:

like, Microsoft ads or Bing, sorry.

kasim:

Like it's just two part of like the human experience now just to Google stuff.

kasim:

The other thing that was quite interesting, I was expecting this to

kasim:

come out was apple, was there rumors they're gonna do a search engine

kasim:

and make a default on apple safari.

kasim:

So on the phones, which, Google pays one to 6 billion to be the default on iPhones.

kasim:

So potentially apple could come out with their search engine that could, if they're

kasim:

half the world's phones, that's half the market that's been robbed from them.

kasim:

Mm.

kasim:

And then especially with like apple, like really doubling down

kasim:

on data privacy, it might like really Rob Google from that data.

kasim:

That's, everyone's been able to capitalize on yeah.

kasim:

The, the apple search engine is gonna be interesting.

kasim:

I've been betting on apple, rolling out their own ad network

kasim:

forever and they haven't done.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

They will mate.

kasim:

Yeah, I have no doubt.

kasim:

I've got time for one more.

kasim:

And then I've got daddy duty.

kasim:

You pick, which one's your favorite?

kasim:

My, you pick one, it's yours choice.

kasim:

You talk about YouTube ads.

kasim:

What industries does it work well for?

kasim:

And when it doesn't, when have you got it to work?

kasim:

And I'm asking because YouTube ads are, they're the thing that make the

kasim:

least sense for me in Google ads.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

In terms of like predictability and reliability, you know what I mean?

kasim:

Like it's always, generally, I've got a pretty good sense to like, oh, okay.

kasim:

I think this client's gonna work with any other campaign type.

kasim:

And YouTube is always, if I'm surprised or just knocked off

kasim:

my horse, it's always YouTube.

kasim:

This is an interesting thing that I reckon we, if we both master

kasim:

or, this could be a game changer.

kasim:

YouTube ads is probably the most underutilized, but biggest ad network.

kasim:

That is just not tapped into.

kasim:

Hmm.

kasim:

So, people go to YouTube as much as they go on Google, like from

kasim:

billionaires to just everyday per people.

kasim:

Like it's, it's a universal place.

kasim:

It's not like Facebook or Instagram where it's, people in

kasim:

an account, you can just go there.

kasim:

I think it's been exploited by internet marketers, but I don't think many

kasim:

businesses are, or like big businesses, like hello, fresh or whatever, but

kasim:

it's not being used by the everyday business cost of traffic or cost of

kasim:

views on it is really cheap still.

kasim:

But the barrier to entry is like creative and like, people just don't

kasim:

wanna create it in terms of it working.

kasim:

Like the only times I'm really seeing it work for a lot of my clients

kasim:

is just like retargeting campaign.

kasim:

Like, yeah, it does very few.

kasim:

Like I'd love to say, yeah, I can build out these half a million dollar,

kasim:

like YouTube campaigns that like deliver this X ROAS or return on leads.

kasim:

But the only time I hear people having success is when the brand's already known

kasim:

or the personal, like the personal brand.

kasim:

If it's like a motivational speaker, like people know who they are, it's really hard

kasim:

when you're just coming outta the gates.

kasim:

That's what I think, like, what are your thoughts on YouTube ads?

kasim:

I think that YouTube is a slow burn.

kasim:

It takes time.

kasim:

It takes money because you're, you're, it's not intent based.

kasim:

Everybody thinks, oh, Google's intent based.

kasim:

So YouTube should be intent based.

kasim:

And even though somebody has an intent when they're visiting a

kasim:

piece of content, their intent isn't to, it's not commercial.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

And so I've seen people be really successful with hyper top of the

kasim:

funnel offers Pedro AEO was a client for a long time challenge guy.

kasim:

And we got a ton of people to opt in on challenges for YouTube.

kasim:

The CPL was still five X, what it was on Facebook, but it was

kasim:

really damn good CPL for YouTube.

kasim:

But if your offer isn't crazy top of the funnel, if you have a bottom of the

kasim:

funnel offer, then you need way more time.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

So it's kind of an X and a Y axis and you get to decide where it

kasim:

is that you land on that axis.

kasim:

But I've noticed.

kasim:

And, and so I've got a buddy, you know, alre heck no, he's the YouTube guy.

kasim:

You've, you've seen his face.

kasim:

He looks 12 years old.

kasim:

He's like, he's one of the most successful marketers on the planet

kasim:

he owns I forgot the name of his business, but he's the YouTube guy.

kasim:

Like he's the YouTube ads, Facebook ads every time.

kasim:

Oh, anyway, I don't, well, I'll have to look it up afterwards, mate.

kasim:

Arick teaches people how to run YouTube ads, but . He teaches a, MicroPen model.

kasim:

I've never made YouTube ads work on a MicroPen ever.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Ever, like if you don't have 10 grand a month, plus don't touch YouTube because

kasim:

you have to carpet bomb an audience.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

Well the, the thing at the end of the day, it's easy to sell a course and say,

kasim:

you can do it is like when it comes to the execution, like, yeah, you might have

kasim:

some clients and outliers that do it, but like what's the average client achieving.

kasim:

That's what I always look at.

kasim:

Like, what's the average client achieving that's what's like your top 1% client.

kasim:

And then with a lot of these like courses, it's like, it hasn't been

kasim:

refined enough yet that the average person can get consistent results.

kasim:

Like Google search, you can, can get consistent results regardless of business.

kasim:

I just think some of the other business, like other advertising

kasim:

channels just don't have that yet.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

I think you're right.

kasim:

I got a jet.

kasim:

I know you got a jet last night.

kasim:

Yeah.

kasim:

I appreciate your time, man.

kasim:

Let's do it again, dude.

kasim:

This is good

kasim:

thanks for the Tom Knight.

kasim:

Thanks for coming on, man.

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The Google Ads Podcast
PPC Strategies, Tutorials, Tips, Tricks, Hacks, and Best Practices

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