The Reasons Why Your Performance Max Campaign Isn’t Working - Weekly Live Q&A

kasim: 00:00:12

I just started tweeting by the way I started a week ago.

kasim: 00:00:15

And this morning I've had a spectrum of experiences.

kasim: 00:00:17

I posted this thing about how I don't think people should go to college anymore.

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And I had a lady,

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I support that by the way, I support that a hundred percent.

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Think you got way like a master's doctorate, triple PhD, master's in

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electrical and computer engineering guys.

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And I looked at brain scans.

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I could tell you if a person has dementia or Alzheimer's just by looking at it.

kasim: 00:00:38

Yeah.

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Dr.

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Khan, Dr.

kasim: 00:00:39

Khan.

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So what's funny is I posted this thing on Twitter, not thinking too much of

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it, like the advice I'm getting in the training I'm doing is just like,

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be yourself, post your opinions.

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whatever mm-hmm . And so I post this thing and this woman starts in on me

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about how I'm raising my children.

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So I got like super and I don't like it when people don't like

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me, cuz I have no self-esteem.

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On one end I had this horrible conversation with this lady who was like

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attacking my parenting, but then I ended up having this conversation with this guy

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chandler, who disagrees with everything I'm saying, but it's a super productive,

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really kind like actual discussion, which I crave that type of thing.

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So I don't know, man.

kasim: 00:01:11

Twitter's hard.

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It's there's pros and cons.

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I have opinion too, but here

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let's not hit Twitter.

kasim: 00:01:18

Alright, so you two are obviously not John, right?

kasim: 00:01:20

But John is what is he doing?

kasim: 00:01:22

He's RV, the Bootle versions of.

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Yeah.

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John is on an RV trip somewhere.

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What is he doing?

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John's on an RV trip.

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So I brought in two of our strategists to come.

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And when I say I brought y'all in you volunteered.

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Cause I posted in our strategy thread.

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He offered me dinner guys.

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I was bride what

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hashtag ramen noodle.

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So we're gonna get into that.

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We've already got some questions dropping.

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Jason, James is here.

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What's up?

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Jason, Archie Jeter.

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Archie says, what are your thoughts on creating two feeds, one for

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standard, one for PAX, for the same products, different IDs.

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So they don't cannibalize each other.

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That's actually really smart.

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Somebody tell me why that won't work.

kasim: 00:01:56

It will work.

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And because you'll be taking up two spots on this shopping network,

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You'll be double serving, but I've seen it work well.

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And by people in the us too,

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there was a strategy that was being run a year ago, and I don't know how

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effective it is anymore where people would take their best performing

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products, duplicate them and launch ads, campaigns for them again.

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So, this is kind of like what he's doing here.

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The only thing I'd recommend here is make sure you have GTN so you

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can share the data across products.

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That was gonna be my question.

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If you have GTMs and they're similar across products, won't

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that be the indication Google needs in order to not double screen?

kasim: 00:02:27

No.

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No, because technically they're different products.

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They're gonna have different ideas.

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It's just gonna be the same product, because there's gonna be a bunch

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of people with the same product.

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Like if you're selling a Dell laptop, it's gonna have the same GTN.

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If you're selling it FA selling it and I'm selling it.

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But would Google serve the same GTN from the same account?

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I feel like they should have a safeguard there.

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That's a really good idea.

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Archie.

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That's a good one.

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I'd be interested to see what happens if you try that.

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That's a good test.

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Yeah.

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I actually think it would work out, especially because

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you'd have keywords for it.

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And you could use the typical standard shopping approaches.

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Yeah, I forgot to let this question flash.

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So I did that Ryan's theory says happy Friday, gentleman college

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is still great for binge drinking.

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That's so funny.

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Cause it's true.

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That's the only thing I missed out on college was I

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feel like I would've had fun.

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It's a great place to make friends.

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That's the only thing I have, like go to college, make some

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lifelong friends and then do well.

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And dude, depending on where you go to college, like if you go to

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college in Stanford, like you're probably friends with the next

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president, you know what I mean?

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So the networking is probably president with like a future CEO

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of some company somewhere, Yeah.

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Mm-hmm uhto arms of Andes this year.

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Ryan says started a PAX campaign on Wednesday, congrats, a

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hundred asset groups, right?

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With $650 a day budget, we've received nearly two months worth of

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impressions in two days, but only one conversion and terrible CTR.

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Is this normal?

kasim: 00:03:40

Yeah.

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Give it a couple days.

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It's been two days, right?

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Yep.

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From what we heard from Google.

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Like you have to give like six months, three weeks, especially if it's a

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brand new account, give it a while.

kasim: 00:03:51

Oh.

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Cause they don't trust you.

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Cause like there are too many indicators.

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Google is going to test seven channels.

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My showing seven.

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This is too, you're just too narrow.

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Let me see if I on the left, if they have channels and different kind of people.

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So it's going to stop by like, should I use this way?

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Should I use YouTube?

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Should I use shopping?

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So it's gonna go wild.

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You're gonna see some unrelated unrelevant keywords in your search themes,

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but give it some time consider your conversion leg also two days just too new

kasim: 00:04:22

Yeah.

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And what was the execution model also if you're running a

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first click and if you had smart shopping campaigns from previous.

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Those new conversions can end up in your past smart shopping or your old campaigns.

kasim: 00:04:35

You should check that also was, this was Ryan's question, cuz Ryan just

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said it isn't a brand new account.

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We've had smart shopping, running for a few months with around consistent ORs.

kasim: 00:04:43

Ryan waited out if you're running it at the same budget as before and

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smart shopping was working well, let it run for a couple weeks before

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you make a judgment call on it.

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Ryan also added some context.

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He said also we sell leather goods for apple products and we have

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a lot of limited assets due to headline descriptions containing

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trademark phrases like iPhone apple.

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Is there a way around this?

kasim: 00:05:00

Nope.

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Yes.

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Especially not with apple.

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That those no apple different way with one P

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That's so funny though.

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Arms and Andes Freecom brands.

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We're running a hyper segmented PAX campaign.

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Now with our summer shirts, when winter comes, should we add a new

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asset group or run a separate PAX campaign with our winter jackets?

kasim: 00:05:18

I don't have a direct answer for that because we're testing the

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different change in seasonality.

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We have a couple accounts that we're launching new PAX

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depending on this season.

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And another couple accounts that where you just created new asset groups.

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I think this is my personal opinion now on this, because we don't

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have direct numbers to show this.

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I think the, the same campaign with the new asset groups, or even

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swapping out images and some ad copy is gonna work for you better

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than a completely new PAX campaign.

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And the reason I say that is because your audience is generally gonna be the same.

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If you're running a brand, you just have different products yeah.

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To push.

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If that makes sense different seasons I will run the same performance banks

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campaign also, but I would try to guide it with the supplementary campaign.

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So if you're running in winter, so let's say you started selling jackets.

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So I would create some protein, CPA or DSA campaigns for those

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winter product to push those search terms inside of performance Macs.

kasim: 00:06:12

Good advice.

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Jason, James what's y'all's opinion on running standard shopping

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campaigns when PAX isn't performing

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do it standard.

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I still have time.

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Why standard

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no, that's what I was gonna say.

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If PAX doesn't perform, what are other options do you have?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Cuz smart is gone.

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So if PMAP doesn't perform it's more or less doesn't necessarily mean the

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shopping network isn't performing.

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It could be a mixture of shopping being working fine, but the other not so well.

kasim: 00:06:37

Right.

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Because your products are working well on one network, it doesn't necessarily

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mean it's gonna work with a three X rule as across the board on all networks.

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Right?

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So if you're P.

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No matter what you tried, doesn't work, go for the ju the more

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standard approaches we have.

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I know we preach PAX, but that doesn't mean you gotta stick to it all the time.

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I was I'm about to say something that's gonna make me just sound like

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a fricking indoctrinated, Google P.

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If PAX fails, my first assumption is gonna be that you didn't run it.

kasim: 00:07:03

Right.

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I would check and test, did I make changes too early?

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Did I add a two row as when I shouldn't have, have I updated anything in

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the campaign that reset learning

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you know what I mean?

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Like make sure you are a thousand percent sure that you actually ran

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PAX and gave it an adequate, I mean, did you spend enough money?

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Did you wait enough time?

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Those are the two really big ones.

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And then if that's the case, there are campaigns where PAX

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fails and what John has told me.

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And I think what these fellas do too, is then we do lean into traditional

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campaigns and there's a bunch of them.

kasim: 00:07:28

Yeah, it works really well.

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We've skilled multiple clients using them and we've.

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Saved clients using it, but at the same time, it's not gonna work

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every single time for everything.

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Here's the freaking problem though.

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We haven't had a single, not one legacy, actually.

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One of you correct me on whether or not this is true.

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Here's the way that I currently believe the state and nature

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of the situation to be.

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We haven't had a single client that we were running that was successful with

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any other Google ad channel, where we turned on PAX and it didn't work.

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All of our legacy clients PAX worked, the only failed PAX

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campaigns we had were new clients.

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Yeah.

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And all that tells me is once Google has cracked the code on where these people

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are, it's, PMAX, it's gonna scale it.

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what I've noticed, and I'm gonna just build on your point, if your

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account has enough data and enough data across multiple campaign types.

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Right.

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So if you've been running search, if you've been running only shopping.

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PAX is gonna take a little bit while to pick up.

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But if you've been running, shopping, search remarket, dynamic

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ads YouTube and all that stuff, your PAX will go up like this.

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That's what I've noticed.

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Like if your account is already running a bunch of different campaign types, your

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PAX picks up immediate almost instantly.

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If that makes sense.

kasim: 00:08:31

No, that doesn't make sense.

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Jason is saying, I can tell you everything we did, right.

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It just failed.

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Which Jason we've said that happened with new campaign.

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What's the volume.

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What is the previous performance?

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So John is running big companies, right?

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So when he test something, Hey, I put 5k in this campaign 5k a day after

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three days, it's just skyrocket.

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And sometimes people don't have that option.

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So when you learn something, it cannot take off, but you should give it time

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and you should consider your budget.

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You should consider your industry and especially you

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should consider your demand.

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So.

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I have multiple cases.

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Performance max is profitable to a point let's say $300 per day.

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If I push 400, the demand is not enough, so it cannot harvest demand anymore.

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So what it does goes on more YouTube, more display.

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So the raw goes down and we have to pull back.

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So that's the case.

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Jason says, it's Jim gear.

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They spend $300 a day and they had a hard cutoff in February

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to change the performance max.

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So it sounds like they kind of ripped the bandaid off, but

kasim: 00:09:29

smart shopping was performing.

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That's the one thing, if smart shopping is performing and PAX didn't perform,

kasim: 00:09:34

that sounds like there's something that needs to be dug into there.

kasim: 00:09:37

Yeah, definitely.

kasim: 00:09:39

We used to get 10 to 20 X row as, but PAX never got above five X.

kasim: 00:09:43

Hm that's a first.

kasim: 00:09:44

Yeah, and this is gonna sound more combative than, I mean, for it to be

kasim: 00:09:47

James mm-hmm, that would be the first time we've seen that outta 200 accounts.

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If smart shopping is performing PAX performed, Jason, you might

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wanna check your try different creatives change up your ad.

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Copy a bit.

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Cuz usually those are the main factors in the PMAX your listing group is just

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gonna stay the same, which means your shopping ads are gonna be the same as

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they were in your smart shopping campaign.

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So that's not gonna change.

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The only other influencing factors are your ad copy and your what do you call it?

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Pictures and videos created.

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How long have you been running PAX?

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Jim said, Jason said he did all that.

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How long did you let it run?

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Jason?

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Yeah.

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How long did you let it run on?

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What is the prime rate?

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What is the average order value for you?

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If it's too high?

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Cuz the smart shopping is heavily marked it's.

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Then you have to hit more remarketing campaigns.

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You should sub supplement it with RSA DSA dynamic, remarketing

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display and remarketing, YouTube.

kasim: 00:10:41

That's actually F actually put a really good point, Jason.

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What's your average order value?

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Two, three, right?

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Two to three days.

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It's not like you cannot expect performance max to work that immediately

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with that kind of average order value, because you have to hit so

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many times in somebody's having your marketing before selling mm-hmm the

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PAX is 80% new users, 20% remarketing.

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So we've actually kind of seen this with, just to build up on what FAA saying.

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So for very high order value clients, it is hard for PAX to pick

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up because if you're trying to sell something for that's two to three K.

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People are gonna see need to see it a lot more than just 20% new times, right.

kasim: 00:11:20

Which is why a thousand purchase of four week if dynamic or

kasim: 00:11:23

marketing is on for four weeks.

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If your sales cycle is a week, then dynamic or marketing

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was on for three weeks.

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And I don't think that's a long enough test.

kasim: 00:11:29

I think dynamic or marketing plus PAX is going to at least address some of

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the issues we're talking about here.

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What is the commercial like?

kasim: 00:11:35

But just to build on, and if you really wanna leverage the PMX teams, you gotta

kasim: 00:11:39

let your remarketing run longer and you gotta get every shape form of remarketing.

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You can to run in parallel with PMA, which includes dynamic, DSA YouTube

kasim: 00:11:48

discovery, whatever you can think of.

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Cause you're gonna need multiple touchpoint for something like that.

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He said, I think you're right.

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Selma.

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Yes.

kasim: 00:11:55

Arms of Andy.

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Freecom what's the correct way to run one search campaign only

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alongside 100% augmented PAX campaign.

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Do we start off dynamic or with a T CBA?

kasim: 00:12:04

Just run a DSA DSA, simple, easy, just run a DSA, just run a DSA

kasim: 00:12:09

later on wild for a couple days or a couple weeks and put a TCPA on it.

kasim: 00:12:12

David Morgan.

kasim: 00:12:13

Hey guys.

kasim: 00:12:13

My first PAX campaign I launched 45 days ago has spent about 5k and

kasim: 00:12:17

is at a 12 row as which is great, but should I be increasing my CPA?

kasim: 00:12:20

So it spends more.

kasim: 00:12:21

Is it okay to add more asset groups?

kasim: 00:12:23

Well you spend five K and 45 days, which makes me assume your budget

kasim: 00:12:26

is maybe like 50, 60 bucks a day.

kasim: 00:12:28

You have 12 asset groups.

kasim: 00:12:29

Wait, how many asset groups did he say he had?

kasim: 00:12:31

He didn't.

kasim: 00:12:32

How many asset groups do you have?

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David?

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I'm gonna assume not enough.

kasim: 00:12:36

but if you have little asset groups, let's say 10 to 12, keep it at that.

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Until you're able to scale your campaign to spend maybe 200, $300 a day.

kasim: 00:12:44

Because guys, if you create too many asset groups and your budget doesn't

kasim: 00:12:48

support it, it's not gonna work.

kasim: 00:12:50

Your budget has to support the number of asset groups you create.

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Cuz remember you're testing.

kasim: 00:12:54

I don't know if you have 20 you're testing, 20 asset groups with $50

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a day in spend, which isn't ideal.

kasim: 00:13:00

Right?

kasim: 00:13:00

In your case, if you're hitting a 12 ROS without touching the campaign,

kasim: 00:13:03

I'd start increasing your budget by 15, 20%, every two to three weeks,

kasim: 00:13:08

depending how well your campaign reacts and expect the performance to dip.

kasim: 00:13:12

Every time you adjust the budget, it's gonna go down and then it's gonna take

kasim: 00:13:14

a couple days just staying down and then it's gonna slowly come back up

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to back where it was or close to it.

kasim: 00:13:19

Good advice.

kasim: 00:13:20

Dave Fogel says he's given up PAX.

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We still love you.

kasim: 00:13:23

Dave Orland, max field been diving deep into Google ads from

kasim: 00:13:26

zero knowledge of past month.

kasim: 00:13:28

What is the best way to become proficient in Google ads?

kasim: 00:13:30

And where did y'all.

kasim: 00:13:31

ready to work hard, but wanting direction.

kasim: 00:13:33

Man's a good question for you guys.

kasim: 00:13:35

It is, and I got the perfect an answer for it, and you're gonna love it.

kasim: 00:13:38

Go to the solutions at YouTube channel.

kasim: 00:13:40

Find the first video and just go there's so much in there.

kasim: 00:13:44

start from the top and work your way down.

kasim: 00:13:46

Yo, there's so much in there.

kasim: 00:13:48

You'll learn a thing or two, maybe not from Boston, but from John and

kasim: 00:13:51

everybody else, you'll probably learn.

kasim: 00:13:52

That's what I tell people.

kasim: 00:13:53

I'm like, go watch John's videos.

kasim: 00:13:54

My videos, I just watched John's videos.

kasim: 00:13:56

I watch what John says internally are in hacker in company meetings.

kasim: 00:13:59

And then I shoot videos on that.

kasim: 00:14:00

We used to have courses Lin and I'd give you those courses, but

kasim: 00:14:03

they're also freaking outta date.

kasim: 00:14:05

Yeah, dude.

kasim: 00:14:05

Here's the problem.

kasim: 00:14:06

We launched a e-commerce masterclass in October and then PAX launched in November.

kasim: 00:14:10

So I was just like, all right.

kasim: 00:14:11

We're we're done the course game we're done.

kasim: 00:14:13

Yeah.

kasim: 00:14:13

You should start with Google's free certificate, just so

kasim: 00:14:17

you know how not to do it.

kasim: 00:14:18

. I'll tell you,

kasim: 00:14:19

you know,

kasim: 00:14:19

Google certification though.

kasim: 00:14:20

It's great with nomenclature.

kasim: 00:14:21

They do a good job teaching you the dashboard, teaching you the verbiage

kasim: 00:14:24

but don't trust what Google teaches you.

kasim: 00:14:26

Yeah, but just learn, just learn the terminology.

kasim: 00:14:29

Like you cannot jump into John's videos without knowing

kasim: 00:14:32

your way around Google ads.

kasim: 00:14:34

So use Google ads, certification courses to learn the words, learn

kasim: 00:14:39

the interfaces inside Google list.

kasim: 00:14:41

Then jump onto videos . And as far as beginner courses are concerned, I think

kasim: 00:14:46

Isaac ruskis, TMY course is pretty good.

kasim: 00:14:48

At leaks got ad it's really good for building context and

kasim: 00:14:52

understanding how things work.

kasim: 00:14:53

Yeah.

kasim: 00:14:53

Ed leaks, the forge, his membership is like, I think it's probably the best

kasim: 00:14:58

education out there for Google ads.

kasim: 00:14:59

Mm-hmm but I wouldn't call it for beginners.

kasim: 00:15:01

Like you can't open that thing up fresh, not the forge, his got tier

kasim: 00:15:04

ads where he has all those PDFs.

kasim: 00:15:06

He go, he starts from scratch and explains everything pretty well, but

kasim: 00:15:09

yeah, you still need some context and some knowledge before you can

kasim: 00:15:11

start reading and understanding that we should be affiliate for this damn

kasim: 00:15:14

thing for as often a push it out.

kasim: 00:15:17

For eCommerce, I can also suggest store grows.

kasim: 00:15:20

That guy is amazing.

kasim: 00:15:21

Store grows.

kasim: 00:15:23

Yeah.

kasim: 00:15:23

Never heard of him.

kasim: 00:15:24

What channel?

kasim: 00:15:25

Where do we go?\\

kasim: 00:15:25

A block pay like his own website.

kasim: 00:15:27

Okay.

kasim: 00:15:28

He has case studies very detailed blog post.

kasim: 00:15:31

It's amazing.

kasim: 00:15:32

Will you drop the link to chat FA right?

kasim: 00:15:35

Thank you.

kasim: 00:15:35

Store growers.

kasim: 00:15:43

just wanted to see if it worked the song heckling me in chat.

kasim: 00:15:44

All right, next question.

kasim: 00:15:46

Hell

kasim: 00:15:47

Here we go, Ella Mary, for a PMA campaign with TRO as is turning on customer match

kasim: 00:15:52

and account settings will be a good idea.

kasim: 00:15:53

I haven't tested that to be honest, I'm not gonna lie FA no idea.

kasim: 00:15:57

Let's test it.

kasim: 00:15:58

And that's the same question next week.

kasim: 00:16:01

give us a week to test it or you go test it and teach us cuz we're not sure.

kasim: 00:16:07

Yeah.

kasim: 00:16:07

so funny arms and Andies for a clothing e-com is PAX worth running along

kasim: 00:16:12

alone, or should it be run with search and YouTube campaigns running with

kasim: 00:16:16

YouTube at the very least YouTube, especially remarketing clothing is

kasim: 00:16:20

very hard to take off the ground.

kasim: 00:16:22

Yeah.

kasim: 00:16:23

Yeah.

kasim: 00:16:23

And with PMX.

kasim: 00:16:24

You have to run dynamic remarketing, right?

kasim: 00:16:25

Like there's no way around it because it doesn't remark all.

kasim: 00:16:28

Cool.

kasim: 00:16:28

David Morgan, do any, you guys use third party tracking?

kasim: 00:16:31

Yes.

kasim: 00:16:32

David we're advisors and investors in a software called north beam.

kasim: 00:16:36

So we pimp out north beam pretty hard.

kasim: 00:16:38

I've heard really good things about triple whale.

kasim: 00:16:40

I think John helped inform the build out of that software, to be honest with you.

kasim: 00:16:43

We don't like Hiro.

kasim: 00:16:44

We don't like anything that uses UTM standalone because

kasim: 00:16:47

UTM is so easy to strip.

kasim: 00:16:48

So north beam is nice because it uses.

kasim: 00:16:51

Multi variant tracking factors that help make sure you're

kasim: 00:16:54

actually capturing all the touches.

kasim: 00:16:56

The thing that I'll say about attribution software specifically is you're

kasim: 00:16:59

never gonna get it a hundred percent.

kasim: 00:17:00

Right.

kasim: 00:17:00

So it's just a guiding light, but we require now all of our e-commerce

kasim: 00:17:04

clients to use north beam, just because getting a, a read on what's actually

kasim: 00:17:07

happening otherwise, especially if they're using other advertising

kasim: 00:17:09

channels, it's S damn near impossible.

kasim: 00:17:12

Would you guys add anything to that?

kasim: 00:17:13

Nope.

kasim: 00:17:14

No.

kasim: 00:17:15

It's essential.

kasim: 00:17:16

Four agencies essential, like toy snip.

kasim: 00:17:19

We used to get a six to eight X rows in smart shopping.

kasim: 00:17:21

We changed to PAX T CPA and we are not under four X, so we're getting many,

kasim: 00:17:26

many, many more orders, but smaller ones.

kasim: 00:17:29

So I have the benefit of having looked at your account choice ship and, and

kasim: 00:17:33

the thing y'all have a great product.

kasim: 00:17:34

The problem is . The lifetime value of your customer is gonna be low given

kasim: 00:17:38

what it is that you're selling and your average order value is gonna be low.

kasim: 00:17:40

What I would be doing if I were you, is I'd be, I'd be banging on

kasim: 00:17:43

the LTV button as hard as you can.

kasim: 00:17:46

And I think one of the things that you can do with the type of toys that

kasim: 00:17:48

you're selling, you're learning a lot about your demographic and your avatar.

kasim: 00:17:51

I'd be looking at subscriptions and packages.

kasim: 00:17:53

I got my kid, this science box where we get a different

kasim: 00:17:56

science project every month.

kasim: 00:17:57

And then we all get to do that together.

kasim: 00:17:59

I think if you find out somebody likes Batman toys, it's as hard to sell one

kasim: 00:18:02

Batman toy one time as it would be to sell a Batman toy subscription.

kasim: 00:18:05

I'm gonna, I'm gonna add on that.

kasim: 00:18:06

Exactly what concept I'm on the website.

kasim: 00:18:08

And if someone comes and buys the toys, they're gonna come back and

kasim: 00:18:10

buy another one, a hundred percent.

kasim: 00:18:11

You just gotta be in their face when they feel like buying it again.

kasim: 00:18:14

So your remarketing needs to be on point all the time.

kasim: 00:18:17

Right?

kasim: 00:18:17

And have like a million different videos, like will figure out

kasim: 00:18:20

which one works million videos is.

kasim: 00:18:22

Right.

kasim: 00:18:22

Jason says costumes video eight days ago about PAX told me I was.

kasim: 00:18:25

In security's decision for going back to smart standard shopping.

kasim: 00:18:28

That's funny, I'm talking to people at a performance max.

kasim: 00:18:31

Now here we go.

kasim: 00:18:32

Michael AUO is adding any asset groups to an existing PMAX campaign.

kasim: 00:18:36

Reset the learning phase somewhat.

kasim: 00:18:38

Yes, cuz it still has to go test those asset groups.

kasim: 00:18:40

It might work in your favor.

kasim: 00:18:41

It might work against you.

kasim: 00:18:43

If the asset group is good, it'll work in your favor.

kasim: 00:18:45

If it isn't it'll work against you, it will recover.

kasim: 00:18:48

Your PMAX campaign will recover.

kasim: 00:18:49

It might just take longer.

kasim: 00:18:50

David Morgan.

kasim: 00:18:51

My budget is at 300, but it only spends about 60 a day.

kasim: 00:18:54

I only have one asset group.

kasim: 00:18:55

There is there as many more asset groups as you can, David, until you actually

kasim: 00:19:00

start spending that money, do you have a distinct billing strategy on that?

kasim: 00:19:05

Did you start with CPA hero as.

kasim: 00:19:08

And how long have you been running it for?

kasim: 00:19:11

Are you just basing it off?

kasim: 00:19:12

Like two days of running?

kasim: 00:19:13

Yeah, I dropped that Vme takes a little bit to pick up too.

kasim: 00:19:16

Like if you're only spending $60 a day, give it a couple days.

kasim: 00:19:18

It'll start spending more too.

kasim: 00:19:20

Especially if it's new, did some of the, not our accounts.

kasim: 00:19:23

And I don't know why this says, I don't know if it has something to

kasim: 00:19:25

do with TCP or TBR being applied.

kasim: 00:19:27

But when I see a new PAX campaign launch, I always see a massive spike and in

kasim: 00:19:31

the beginning, and then this instant paper, , it's always every single time.

kasim: 00:19:35

It's always massive clients get super happy and then it goes dip.

kasim: 00:19:37

And then it's like sh very slowly getting back up.

kasim: 00:19:42

Yeah.

kasim: 00:19:42

And like every time to this scale, I'm like tell em, they see a massive

kasim: 00:19:45

increase and then everything's gonna go to shit, but it's okay.

kasim: 00:19:50

we dunno why this happens, but we know that it happens.

kasim: 00:19:53

So it's fine.

kasim: 00:19:53

Yeah.

kasim: 00:19:54

It starts all hanging fruits and the branded conversions to learn.

kasim: 00:20:00

So don't be scared to see a.

kasim: 00:20:02

Reference it uses that to learn.

kasim: 00:20:04

So by picking out those low hanging fruits, so it's, since I'm making

kasim: 00:20:08

that much money, I can spend more.

kasim: 00:20:10

I can spend more.

kasim: 00:20:11

So you'll see a spike in span on that end.

kasim: 00:20:14

And when you exhaust that existing fruits, it's going to start to get new users.

kasim: 00:20:20

That's when you'll see a dip in spend and roll as Dave Fogel has

kasim: 00:20:23

an interesting question here.

kasim: 00:20:24

How many asset groups per dollar in spend?

kasim: 00:20:28

So if you have $50 a day, how many asset groups do you have?

kasim: 00:20:30

Whereas if you have a hundred dollars a day, how many asset groups do you have?

kasim: 00:20:33

That's a good dip.

kasim: 00:20:34

A question.

kasim: 00:20:35

Hold on.

kasim: 00:20:35

I don't have an SOP for that.

kasim: 00:20:37

Cause like it depends on the industry.

kasim: 00:20:40

I'm sorry for giving like open answers, but your, if your average CPC on $1

kasim: 00:20:45

and somebody else's every CPC around $5, it's completely different SOP.

kasim: 00:20:51

So I don't want to give exact numbers.

kasim: 00:20:53

. Yeah, he's got a point, but let's say in a perfect role,

kasim: 00:20:56

you have good CP and everything.

kasim: 00:20:58

What would be like $5 per asset group to build Michael audio Guo?

kasim: 00:21:03

Is there a way to monitor performance on a PAX campaign at

kasim: 00:21:05

the individual asset group level?

kasim: 00:21:07

Dude, if we could, here's what I wonder.

kasim: 00:21:10

Why, why won't they give us this data?

kasim: 00:21:12

It would only help us.

kasim: 00:21:13

There's you can watch the listing groups in asset group and you can see

kasim: 00:21:16

what keywords converted, but it's so tedious because you have to go into

kasim: 00:21:20

like the insights and then you have to click that little 23 asset group

kasim: 00:21:24

put in there, and then you have to see what converted for that keyword.

kasim: 00:21:27

Then you go through all the other keyword themes that converted and you

kasim: 00:21:30

gotta figure out which one was working.

kasim: 00:21:31

So it's extremely tedious to kind of identify which one's working.

kasim: 00:21:36

And even then it's not accurate because you don't know the conversion path

kasim: 00:21:39

that followed before it converted, which asset group it went through.

kasim: 00:21:43

Cuz we've had that issue where we've turned off as the group and the campaigns.

kasim: 00:21:47

Yeah.

kasim: 00:21:48

Yeah, that's what's frustrating is you don't know what's gonna happen.

kasim: 00:21:50

Google is not giving that away because the more Google gives, the more you

kasim: 00:21:55

are likely to pause or close something.

kasim: 00:21:57

So you may see some co conversion inside of some asset groups, but

kasim: 00:22:01

those seems to not working well, maybe they're creating top of funnel and

kasim: 00:22:05

you don't know that you kill that.

kasim: 00:22:07

Then the essence group dive in Dave says I hear the data's coming soon

kasim: 00:22:11

from my Google rep, Dave, if I had a dollar for every damn time, a

kasim: 00:22:15

Google rep told me I was about to get something still waiting on my $5.

kasim: 00:22:19

Yeah.

kasim: 00:22:19

Toy sch snip last week, John, didn't give a final answer as I think you never tried.

kasim: 00:22:23

What happens if two PAXs are running at the same time, one TCP and the other two

kasim: 00:22:26

row eyes really cancel each other out.

kasim: 00:22:28

don't do that.

kasim: 00:22:29

Every time we launch two P max together, actually it varies.

kasim: 00:22:33

.Sometimes it works running to, yeah.

kasim: 00:22:36

like I won for the hero product.

kasim: 00:22:39

I have to spend certain amount of money on that.

kasim: 00:22:42

Then the other PAX is for all of the other products it's working pretty nice, but

kasim: 00:22:47

that's not the use case for everybody.

kasim: 00:22:49

So you have to think deeply.

kasim: 00:22:52

Yeah.

kasim: 00:22:52

I've only had one use case where I'm running multiple PAX campaign effectively

kasim: 00:22:57

and profitably, and it's, that's it.

kasim: 00:22:59

Every time I've tried to run multiple payment campaign has been don't work.

kasim: 00:23:02

So I've got a bad idea.

kasim: 00:23:04

Why wouldn't you take your products and split them by margin, you

kasim: 00:23:08

take your high margin products and run all of those T CPA.

kasim: 00:23:12

You take your low margin products and you run all those two ROS.

kasim: 00:23:15

Two separate campaigns.

kasim: 00:23:16

It's stupid.

kasim: 00:23:18

it's stupid.

kasim: 00:23:19

Don't do it.

kasim: 00:23:20

Just take my word for it.

kasim: 00:23:21

We tried it.

kasim: 00:23:22

It didn't work.

kasim: 00:23:23

Sorry.

kasim: 00:23:23

Yeah, face I'll let you speak phrase in campaign.

kasim: 00:23:26

That's the issue?

kasim: 00:23:27

So this is what Google says.

kasim: 00:23:28

65% of the time when people click on a product, they buy that.

kasim: 00:23:33

But other than that, they click on one product and they buy something else.

kasim: 00:23:37

So let's say in your T cost pollination of product purchases, click on

kasim: 00:23:41

something, but review other stuff in the TROs campaigns products.

kasim: 00:23:45

But since the initial PAX will keep that user, it's not going to show the other

kasim: 00:23:50

products so that, but that's the reason why sometimes two PAX doesn't work.

kasim: 00:23:56

Great answer.

kasim: 00:23:57

Ryan Huron.

kasim: 00:23:58

One more quick question.

kasim: 00:23:59

Is it possible to see how Google is spending by medium search,

kasim: 00:24:02

shopping video, et cetera.

kasim: 00:24:03

Within a PAX campaign.

kasim: 00:24:05

You can tell shopping by just doing the adding, uphold the

kasim: 00:24:08

numbers in the listing group.

kasim: 00:24:10

YouTube, you can go multiply the number of views in that campaign

kasim: 00:24:13

multiplied by the average CPV search.

kasim: 00:24:15

I have no idea.

kasim: 00:24:17

Yeah.

kasim: 00:24:19

Subtract everything else in the remaining a search and display . That's so funny.

kasim: 00:24:24

John Rolo long time.

kasim: 00:24:26

We'll see John, I have six smart shopping campaigns in the same products

kasim: 00:24:29

in each one, one campaign per store.

kasim: 00:24:30

I want to condense the six campaigns in one.

kasim: 00:24:32

What's the best way to go about this all at once.

kasim: 00:24:35

Wait, six smart shopping campaigns with the same products in each one.

kasim: 00:24:38

One campaign per store.

kasim: 00:24:40

So does that mean six stores purchase centers and six.

kasim: 00:24:46

I'm confused to what the question here.

kasim: 00:24:48

John, will you clarify what you mean in the subsequent chat

kasim: 00:24:51

and we'll come back to you.

kasim: 00:24:53

Are you talking six different URLs with six different merchant centers, all with

kasim: 00:24:56

the same products that you can't do?

kasim: 00:24:58

Because when you create a smart shopping campaign, you have

kasim: 00:25:01

to select the merchant center.

kasim: 00:25:02

I don't think Google.

kasim: 00:25:03

Yeah.

kasim: 00:25:03

The feed six merchant centers.

kasim: 00:25:06

Six different S that you cannot do that.

kasim: 00:25:08

Yeah.

kasim: 00:25:09

You have to suck your feed.

kasim: 00:25:10

Yeah.

kasim: 00:25:10

So you basically just have to kill five of them.

kasim: 00:25:12

Pick one, pick your favorite,

kasim: 00:25:14

or just launch six P Maxs.

kasim: 00:25:15

Like he has six more jumping.

kasim: 00:25:17

Yeah.

kasim: 00:25:18

But he wants to combine them.

kasim: 00:25:20

I don't think he can.

kasim: 00:25:21

You have to choose one merchant center.

kasim: 00:25:23

Arms of Andy.

kasim: 00:25:24

What is running remarketing?

kasim: 00:25:25

Could you gimme some more info please?

kasim: 00:25:27

About clothing brands being difficult to get off the ground with PAX clothing.

kasim: 00:25:31

I finish at all.

kasim: 00:25:32

You love clothing brands.

kasim: 00:25:33

If you let me, I I'm gonna talk about Facebook.

kasim: 00:25:36

So you will get shot by.

kasim: 00:25:37

Cause if you get that up, like if you forbid word and

kasim: 00:25:39

FAS no longer with us,

kasim: 00:25:42

it's a little difficult.

kasim: 00:25:49

Cause clothing is all about brand recognition because you

kasim: 00:25:52

cannot say my cotton, my fabric is better than the other.

kasim: 00:25:56

So you have to showcase your products.

kasim: 00:25:58

That's why Facebook works sometimes better in clothing, Facebook.

kasim: 00:26:01

That's why other networks.

kasim: 00:26:03

Oh, right.

kasim: 00:26:04

All right.

kasim: 00:26:05

we can print off Facebook.

kasim: 00:26:06

It's fine.

kasim: 00:26:08

Mm-hmm

kasim: 00:26:08

uh,

kasim: 00:26:08

so you have to try YouTube and you have to Push those remarketing.

kasim: 00:26:12

And by remarketing, we mean dynamic, remarketing, display ads

kasim: 00:26:16

remarketing, YouTube ads, and RLS, a DSA, which Issa just to add on,

kasim: 00:26:23

make sure you're on multichannels.

kasim: 00:26:25

When you're doing clothing, be everywhere, Google, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.

kasim: 00:26:30

That's gonna help you guys more than anything else.

kasim: 00:26:32

If you're all over the place proposition like Louis Viton

kasim: 00:26:36

and Zara are not competitors.

kasim: 00:26:38

So that's the example I'm going to give you.

kasim: 00:26:41

You have to select one thing.

kasim: 00:26:43

Are you quality?

kasim: 00:26:44

Are you brand?

kasim: 00:26:45

Should I buy you because you're cheap.

kasim: 00:26:47

Should I buy you?

kasim: 00:26:49

Cause you're gonna make me look like rich pick a unique selling

kasim: 00:26:53

proposition and highlight that.

kasim: 00:26:55

Yeah.

kasim: 00:26:55

And to the point that FA is making clothing is hard because it's like any

kasim: 00:26:59

level of artistry is violently subject.

kasim: 00:27:02

and what I've noticed, this is wildly anecdotal, but I'll just throw this

kasim: 00:27:05

out there and you guys can bat it down.

kasim: 00:27:06

If you disagree.

kasim: 00:27:07

All the clothing brands that have been successful with us have been, what

kasim: 00:27:10

I would characterize is very unique.

kasim: 00:27:13

Anybody who comes in and I've got generic dresses, t-shirts jeans, whatever.

kasim: 00:27:17

It's always like, ah, man, this is a shot in the dark, unless

kasim: 00:27:19

they have an existing audience.

kasim: 00:27:20

But if they're unique, I saw, and I won't say out loud who this is, but

kasim: 00:27:23

y'all will probably know we had a dude come in with like the ugliest stuff

kasim: 00:27:27

I've ever seen in my entire life dude.

kasim: 00:27:29

It was, I was just like, there's no way it, it killed it, crushed it.

kasim: 00:27:33

And it was because it was the most unique clothing.

kasim: 00:27:35

It was easily identifiable.

kasim: 00:27:37

If we're running remarketing, it's like, oh, there they are again.

kasim: 00:27:39

So I think hyper unique, anything that has a level of subjectivity or artistry

kasim: 00:27:44

to it, it has to be unique because you need to be able to connect that

kasim: 00:27:47

selling proposition to a unique brand.

kasim: 00:27:49

Yeah.

kasim: 00:27:49

Clothing is a little difficult I think this is the most competitive environment.

kasim: 00:27:53

Think about a shopping.

kasim: 00:27:55

I think like if I say 80% of the stores inside of a shopping

kasim: 00:27:59

mall is clothing brands, right?

kasim: 00:28:01

Yep.

kasim: 00:28:01

You have millions of options.

kasim: 00:28:03

So, and you have some brands that are known, like you

kasim: 00:28:07

are in the market for Zara.

kasim: 00:28:08

Let's use Zara.

kasim: 00:28:09

So your clothing, so your designs and pricing identical to Zara.

kasim: 00:28:14

Why should I use you instead of Zara?

kasim: 00:28:17

So you have to sell me that instead of your clothing.

kasim: 00:28:20

Mm-hmm is it for teenagers?

kasim: 00:28:22

Is it for rich people?

kasim: 00:28:23

Is it for like mid-level people?

kasim: 00:28:25

Is it for people like the Selma college students?

kasim: 00:28:28

Is it for design?

kasim: 00:28:29

Is it for the fabric?

kasim: 00:28:31

Is it for the community?

kasim: 00:28:32

Choose, choose one.

kasim: 00:28:34

Yeah.

kasim: 00:28:34

Choose your avatar.

kasim: 00:28:35

Amanda.

kasim: 00:28:35

Howton Freecom.

kasim: 00:28:37

Can you have a product in too many asset groups?

kasim: 00:28:39

For example, vans all in an asset group, plus vans, old school and another.

kasim: 00:28:44

vans near me and another.

kasim: 00:28:45

Thanks income.

kasim: 00:28:46

Can you have products in too many asset groups?

kasim: 00:28:49

Oh, overlap of products between asset groups is fine.

kasim: 00:28:52

Yeah.

kasim: 00:28:52

That's not an issue.

kasim: 00:28:53

And because the asset groups are delineated by audience, usually.

kasim: 00:28:56

So as long as those products are applicable to the audience that

kasim: 00:28:59

you're targeting inside of the asset group, then you're perfectly fine.

kasim: 00:29:01

Mm-hmm arms and Andes.

kasim: 00:29:04

What is the best way to increase LTV and PAX and out of Google ads?

kasim: 00:29:07

Well, LTV isn't in PAX per se.

kasim: 00:29:10

LTV is once somebody's bought, how do you get 'em to buy again?

kasim: 00:29:13

Emails, retargeting.

kasim: 00:29:16

Yeah.

kasim: 00:29:16

And this gets kind of soapboxy.

kasim: 00:29:18

So I promise not to spend so much time here, but love on your customer.

kasim: 00:29:21

I mean, I've, we've all had this experience.

kasim: 00:29:23

I bought a pair of sunglasses off of Amazon and when I opened the box

kasim: 00:29:27

sunglasses, there was this card that explained the story behind the.

kasim: 00:29:31

And it was like really touching and then they gave me an opportunity to get a free

kasim: 00:29:34

pair of sunglasses by sharing socially.

kasim: 00:29:37

And then I did that and then like, like the engagement was , I don't

kasim: 00:29:40

know, man, like I got a kick out of it.

kasim: 00:29:41

I felt like I was dealing with real people and not just another Amazon vendor.

kasim: 00:29:45

And now here I am telling other people about it.

kasim: 00:29:46

You know what I mean?

kasim: 00:29:47

So I think that, you know why I laugh, why I bet they got some copywriter

kasim: 00:29:52

to write that story for them?

kasim: 00:29:53

No.

kasim: 00:29:53

Who cares?

kasim: 00:29:55

I like it's better if it's, if it's real, if it's Integris, but

kasim: 00:29:58

I think that building a brand is about building a relationship.

kasim: 00:30:00

Go build a relationship with people.

kasim: 00:30:02

Good breed.

kasim: 00:30:03

Dave foal says I'm a genius.

kasim: 00:30:05

He's been saying that.

kasim: 00:30:05

He said that like 20 times already.

kasim: 00:30:07

I just keep saying David Morgan, I believe in making too many separate PS

kasim: 00:30:10

campaigns with a few asset groups in each.

kasim: 00:30:12

Okay.

kasim: 00:30:13

So each asset group should be completely new and audience signals are duplicate.

kasim: 00:30:16

Yeah.

kasim: 00:30:17

Unique asset groups, please.

kasim: 00:30:19

yeah, what we're doing, just so David, we just built our SOP for PAX, which

kasim: 00:30:22

we're actually gonna share publicly.

kasim: 00:30:24

And what we did is we took every single product category

kasim: 00:30:26

and every single audience.

kasim: 00:30:27

And if you multiply those, that's how many asset groups you have.

kasim: 00:30:29

So if you have five product categories and five audiences, you

kasim: 00:30:31

now have 25 asset groups assuming have the budget to support all that.

kasim: 00:30:34

David clear this up for me.

kasim: 00:30:35

Are you gonna launch five of the same PAX campaigns, like build out one and then

kasim: 00:30:40

launch five of, of the same ones and have five same campaigns running in parallel.

kasim: 00:30:46

Keep the ones you like, turn off the ones you don't like.

kasim: 00:30:50

That would be an interesting test.

kasim: 00:30:52

Dave Foggo says I've heard you can call Google and add your negative keyword.

kasim: 00:30:55

That is true.

kasim: 00:30:56

Dave.

kasim: 00:30:56

We've had that experience directly.

kasim: 00:30:58

The question is, are we ever gonna get it ourselves?

kasim: 00:31:02

They've got a good Google rep here.

kasim: 00:31:04

They exist.

kasim: 00:31:05

Have you been around for a while?

kasim: 00:31:06

Dave?

kasim: 00:31:06

Cuz they're from the old school.

kasim: 00:31:07

They don't give those out anymore.

kasim: 00:31:08

Mm-hmm here we go.

kasim: 00:31:10

Steve Baula Balo.

kasim: 00:31:12

I did my best.

kasim: 00:31:13

When your PAX campaign is new first four to six weeks, is it still recommended

kasim: 00:31:17

to not specify any Ts or any T CPA?

kasim: 00:31:20

Yep.

kasim: 00:31:20

Don't touch it.

kasim: 00:31:22

That was touch it.

kasim: 00:31:23

That was, that was easy.

kasim: 00:31:24

Casey snow final PAX campaign with 22 different signals going

kasim: 00:31:27

to landing page with no URL expansion hundred dollars a day.

kasim: 00:31:29

First week, row, as on account is up.

kasim: 00:31:33

I see two outta two.

kasim: 00:31:34

Did you guys see one outta two?

kasim: 00:31:35

This looks like a yeah.

kasim: 00:31:36

Part first week, row as on account is up.

kasim: 00:31:39

I mean, two PAX campaign are doing so hard.

kasim: 00:31:43

Where's one outta one.

kasim: 00:31:45

Turn on URL expansion.

kasim: 00:31:47

You'll save yourself with a headache.

kasim: 00:31:49

Yeah.

kasim: 00:31:50

Our rule is always turn on URL expansion, unless you have a very specific reason

kasim: 00:31:53

not to check the landing pages though.

kasim: 00:31:57

Yeah, well it exclude crap landing pages too.

kasim: 00:31:59

By crap.

kasim: 00:32:00

We mean about us policy pages, shipping pages, stuff like that.

kasim: 00:32:03

Yeah.

kasim: 00:32:03

I wanna fight everybody who, who cuts out the about USS page.

kasim: 00:32:05

I still think that that's valuable some context.

kasim: 00:32:09

Some, some, yeah.

kasim: 00:32:11

Well, I'll give you an example.

kasim: 00:32:12

Yellow leaf hammocks.

kasim: 00:32:13

They've got a badass about us page.

kasim: 00:32:15

That's I think that it is no, but I feel like people aren't gonna

kasim: 00:32:19

go about us for yellow leaf ham.

kasim: 00:32:20

They're gonna come to the website, searching for the brand term yellow

kasim: 00:32:23

leaf hammock, and they go to then, then they'll go to the other space.

kasim: 00:32:25

That's not that's unique account.

kasim: 00:32:27

Like if I build it out in the first day, show the account

kasim: 00:32:31

built to you, you will fire me.

kasim: 00:32:33

Right.

kasim: 00:32:33

That's a unique setup.

kasim: 00:32:34

Like normally I would not suggest those things inside your home, but it works.

kasim: 00:32:40

So it works.

kasim: 00:32:41

That's why this is a source of science and there are no SOPs.

kasim: 00:32:45

That's so funny, as I literally just said, we're giving out an SOP F is like,

kasim: 00:32:49

well, we're about our SOPs to the point that FA just made is they're very broad.

kasim: 00:32:54

It's an, if this, then that rules engine that doesn't tell you exactly

kasim: 00:32:58

what to do once you've gotten there, it's kind of like, I mean,

kasim: 00:33:01

there's three categories, basically.

kasim: 00:33:03

It's subject to change and try at your own risk.

kasim: 00:33:05

Yeah.

kasim: 00:33:06

And it'll probably also change.

kasim: 00:33:07

Casey, I feel like we didn't answer your question.

kasim: 00:33:09

So if you want to clarify, please do.

kasim: 00:33:11

I'm sorry that we skipped over you.

kasim: 00:33:12

How would you structure dynamic remarketing from Dennis Thomas?

kasim: 00:33:16

This , this is something we're actually testing to see what works well.

kasim: 00:33:19

I don't want to give an answer knowing that it doesn't work yet, but it's

kasim: 00:33:23

something that we're testing the most effective way to word dynamic.

kasim: 00:33:26

That's my answer.

kasim: 00:33:28

All right.

kasim: 00:33:29

But John has turned off dynamic remarketing on his accounts

kasim: 00:33:31

because it isn't working for him.

kasim: 00:33:34

I'm still testing stuff.

kasim: 00:33:35

Yeah.

kasim: 00:33:35

He's the one that told us we had to run dynamic remarketing.

kasim: 00:33:38

He changed his mind.

kasim: 00:33:39

It's stop changing his mind.

kasim: 00:33:42

I go and I shoot videos.

kasim: 00:33:43

I need, I need this things to stay true because I'm gonna go recorder.

kasim: 00:33:47

So what I said about dynamic with marketing now, listen,

kasim: 00:33:53

max vans.

kasim: 00:33:54

Hey guys, is there any situation where you want to run multiple

kasim: 00:33:57

PAX, for example, very different margin levels between categories.

kasim: 00:34:00

We don't like running multiple PAX.

kasim: 00:34:02

Yeah, go ahead.

kasim: 00:34:03

FA sorry.

kasim: 00:34:04

My example, like I did this one time and the reason was there was a hero product.

kasim: 00:34:10

It was not generating the goal.

kasim: 00:34:11

The goal was three X.

kasim: 00:34:13

That hero product was generating two X with the budget I'm giving and

kasim: 00:34:18

it was exhausting all the budget.

kasim: 00:34:20

So I had to.

kasim: 00:34:21

Put it in a different PAX campaign to save the others and still advertise on it.

kasim: 00:34:27

So sense on the cases.

kasim: 00:34:30

Yeah, our SOP right now, max is all products in one PAX campaign.

kasim: 00:34:34

And then FA I like the, the point that you made earlier, as well, as

kasim: 00:34:37

far as the cross pollination of what they click on and what they buy, not

kasim: 00:34:40

necessarily being the same thing.

kasim: 00:34:41

And then we're not able to take advantage of that in do PAX.

kasim: 00:34:44

We start with all products with one, and then it's just judgment.

kasim: 00:34:48

Hey, arms of Andy says grati, SFA, and FA means Boston Spanish.

kasim: 00:34:53

Yeah.

kasim: 00:34:53

It's F John Rolo, I guess I wanna see if there's any way to not lose

kasim: 00:35:00

out on the leads from the five current smart shopping campaigns.

kasim: 00:35:02

When I pause them, I may not be able to avoid that now.

kasim: 00:35:05

I minute, it sounds like you're gonna have to pick one.

kasim: 00:35:07

Yep.

kasim: 00:35:08

Sorry.

kasim: 00:35:09

Here's a better question from John Rolo though.

kasim: 00:35:11

I've heard you guys discuss the concept of bottom up funnel before

kasim: 00:35:14

when starting a new account with a performance max campaign and then

kasim: 00:35:16

creating search campaigns around that.

kasim: 00:35:18

Be a good example of that in action.

kasim: 00:35:20

Yeah, I think that'd be effective creating bottom up funnel keywords in

kasim: 00:35:24

a certain intent, and then KeyAx to it.

kasim: 00:35:28

Something just occurred to me for John too smart.

kasim: 00:35:31

Shopping is being phased out anyway.

kasim: 00:35:32

So here's, what's gonna happen with your smart shopping accounts is Google's gonna

kasim: 00:35:35

upgrade them into performance max account.

kasim: 00:35:36

Yeah.

kasim: 00:35:37

And it's gonna burn through its prior list.

kasim: 00:35:40

And so what I would do is don't touch a damn thing.

kasim: 00:35:43

Let smart shopping get upgraded into performance.

kasim: 00:35:46

Max it'll run its course, as soon as the performance dies and it will then kill it

kasim: 00:35:51

and then Google consolidates it for you.

kasim: 00:35:53

And then you get to choose the one that died the least, and then create a new

kasim: 00:35:57

performance max campaign using everything that works in the smart shopping

kasim: 00:36:00

campaign, poke holes, and that fell.

kasim: 00:36:02

Yeah, no, I think that's a good idea.

kasim: 00:36:03

Keep your smart shopping.

kasim: 00:36:04

All six of them just upgrade 'em later.

kasim: 00:36:06

Yeah.

kasim: 00:36:06

And y'all, that's a note for everybody.

kasim: 00:36:08

Google's gonna upgrade smart shopping to performance max

kasim: 00:36:10

between July and September.

kasim: 00:36:12

I thought it was July one.

kasim: 00:36:13

Y'all they're phasing it in.

kasim: 00:36:14

Yeah.

kasim: 00:36:14

That, yeah.

kasim: 00:36:15

I saw that when they phase in the upgrade don't make any of the changes that

kasim: 00:36:19

they recommend making, because doing so is gonna reset it entirely and you're

kasim: 00:36:22

gonna lose your legacy audience guys.

kasim: 00:36:25

I'm actually kind of for the thought that if your smart shop, like at

kasim: 00:36:27

this point, if your smart shopping is doing well and you wanna upgrade

kasim: 00:36:30

to PAX, don't wait for Google to make you do it and then just upgrade it.

kasim: 00:36:34

That's yeah, that's really well stick.

kasim: 00:36:35

You'll avoid the learning curve of PAX.

kasim: 00:36:38

I hope . I I think arms of Andy says our differentiation is sustainable

kasim: 00:36:42

biodegradable clothing with no plastic, no polyesters, maybe Etsy

kasim: 00:36:45

and Pinterest would be other good channels to run alongside PAX.

kasim: 00:36:50

Yeah, that's my point.

kasim: 00:36:50

That's why I say YouTube because you cannot sell sustainable and that bio.

kasim: 00:36:55

Page clothing with search.

kasim: 00:36:57

You, you're gonna have to put it in description, but

kasim: 00:36:59

nobody reads descriptions.

kasim: 00:37:01

You cannot show that in shopping.

kasim: 00:37:03

So you have to showcase that on YouTube and hope people will remember you.

kasim: 00:37:08

You will grab people's attention and people will search for your brand.

kasim: 00:37:11

I'm gonna add on to that.

kasim: 00:37:12

Make sure whatever you're sending from Etsy.

kasim: 00:37:15

Pinterest is extremely good traffic because depending on the traffic you send

kasim: 00:37:19

from other channels, it affects your PAX campaign and it affects it significantly.

kasim: 00:37:24

If it's good traffic, your PAX will be amazing.

kasim: 00:37:27

If it's bad traffic, a good PAX will die.

kasim: 00:37:30

Jay smart remarketing showed zero conversions on $400 a day.

kasim: 00:37:33

Spend then suddenly shows 16 conversions three days later after rechecking.

kasim: 00:37:36

Any thoughts?

kasim: 00:37:37

Convert to delayed execution?

kasim: 00:37:38

Yeah.

kasim: 00:37:39

Yeah.

kasim: 00:37:39

So that's models, conversion guys.

kasim: 00:37:42

If you're remarket, when you turn off remarketing, make

kasim: 00:37:44

sure you check everything.

kasim: 00:37:46

So we use north beam just like Casa said, and Google does an absolute shit job at

kasim: 00:37:51

telling us whether that campaign had a part to play with the conversion or not.

kasim: 00:37:55

And we have a campaign.

kasim: 00:37:57

We have some very top of funnel, YouTube campaigns running that show

kasim: 00:38:00

zero view through and zero convergence.

kasim: 00:38:03

And we spent $600, but on NOP it shows $600 spent and almost

kasim: 00:38:06

six grand generated in total.

kasim: 00:38:08

So make sure I know you guys don't have access to all the tools, but go into

kasim: 00:38:12

your Shopify, check your numbers, check.

kasim: 00:38:14

How, what changed?

kasim: 00:38:15

Do like a thorough investigation of everything that's happened since you

kasim: 00:38:18

launched it before you decide to turn it off, it may not be reflecting it

kasim: 00:38:22

in Google, but it may, but indirectly you might have increased your revenue.

kasim: 00:38:26

Steve bale, you recommended running a remarketing campaign with

kasim: 00:38:29

PAX when you're ready to scale.

kasim: 00:38:30

Why not start remarketing plus PX from the very start?

kasim: 00:38:32

I think that's what we're saying.

kasim: 00:38:33

Steve is we want remarketing right outta the gate.

kasim: 00:38:36

Yep.

kasim: 00:38:36

Casey snow, two PMAX campaigns toward same products, all different audience

kasim: 00:38:40

signals, but one goes to a specific landing page and offer with URL expansion

kasim: 00:38:44

off the other has URL expansion.

kasim: 00:38:47

How much will they compete

kasim: 00:38:49

a lot?

kasim: 00:38:49

I've actually run PAX campaign with the same products to at the same time.

kasim: 00:38:54

It's weird because the keywords that they go for, they just

kasim: 00:38:57

compete for the same stuff.

kasim: 00:38:58

So they compete a lot with one like one week, one P mess

kasim: 00:39:01

will be absolutely killing it.

kasim: 00:39:02

And the other one dips the next week, the other one will be killing it.

kasim: 00:39:04

And the other one dips, I haven't seen it work continuously well at

kasim: 00:39:08

the same time for the same product.

kasim: 00:39:10

The new one will start.

kasim: 00:39:11

Good.

kasim: 00:39:12

You're gonna get excited.

kasim: 00:39:13

Yeah, you'll think that.

kasim: 00:39:14

Okay.

kasim: 00:39:14

I, I hit the jackpot.

kasim: 00:39:15

Like this is amazing after two weeks.

kasim: 00:39:18

Bam.

kasim: 00:39:19

Both eyes.

kasim: 00:39:20

Yeah.

kasim: 00:39:21

Hey, I said Steve's name perfectly.

kasim: 00:39:22

Look at that.

kasim: 00:39:23

Dave says, I think the paid sub should get a free north beam account.

kasim: 00:39:26

Dave.

kasim: 00:39:26

I don't get a fricking free north beam account.

kasim: 00:39:28

That would be nice though.

kasim: 00:39:30

Real quick.

kasim: 00:39:30

I wanna give a shout out to all of our new members, Cortland

kasim: 00:39:32

Maxfield, Julian Hoffman, Benjamin Miller, IANA goin and Knox 1315.

kasim: 00:39:37

Thank you for joining and being members of the solution, date channel.

kasim: 00:39:39

We appreciate you.

kasim: 00:39:40

We appreciate your money more.

kasim: 00:39:42

John Rolo.

kasim: 00:39:43

We appreciate you, but more.

kasim: 00:39:46

Yeah, we like those $3.

kasim: 00:39:48

I think it's $10 at the peak of it.

kasim: 00:39:49

Would you guys say that Google under reports, conversions

kasim: 00:39:51

generated from displaying YouTube campaigns when they aren't last

kasim: 00:39:54

click dude, John, by like, yes.

kasim: 00:39:57

I, I think Google drops 30 to 40% of its touches.

kasim: 00:40:00

Mm-hmm yeah, a hundred percent.

kasim: 00:40:02

I remember a couple of years ago, Google came out and said that

kasim: 00:40:04

30% of all conversions were what they called assisted conversions,

kasim: 00:40:07

which are basically conversions that could have been attributed to

kasim: 00:40:09

Google, but they can't prove it.

kasim: 00:40:10

And then what we're seeing inside of north beam is it's crazy.

kasim: 00:40:13

And I'm not trying to push north beam too hard.

kasim: 00:40:15

Cause I do think there are other attribution tools that can articulate

kasim: 00:40:17

something close to the same level of truth, but without a reconciliation tool,

kasim: 00:40:23

that's really capturing first party data.

kasim: 00:40:25

And then reconciling that data against conversion.

kasim: 00:40:27

You don't know what people started, where they started, what touched them

kasim: 00:40:30

in the middle and where they ended and what other channels were involved.

kasim: 00:40:33

Cause let's say you're selling clothing.

kasim: 00:40:35

If you sell 10 items today, And you're running Google and Facebook, Google's

kasim: 00:40:38

gonna say, oh, we sold eight of those.

kasim: 00:40:40

Facebook's gonna say we sold eight of those.

kasim: 00:40:41

So you're gonna have 16 items accounted for, but only 10 items sold.

kasim: 00:40:44

And here's the crazy part is they're both right.

kasim: 00:40:46

But you don't know who's right.

kasim: 00:40:48

To what extent, I mean, Facebook's remarketing and Google's remarketing,

kasim: 00:40:50

both played a role, but who gets more credit and that's why you go use an

kasim: 00:40:54

attribution software and it's subjective.

kasim: 00:40:56

You actually tell the attribution software where you want to give the

kasim: 00:40:58

credit and to what degree and what percentage, and you're probably wrong.

kasim: 00:41:02

So you want to test your assumptions like everything, but I think

kasim: 00:41:05

attribution is really, the problem that needs to be solved and whoever

kasim: 00:41:08

solves that, like that's a billion dollar business right there.

kasim: 00:41:11

If Google solves that problem, it's gonna throw a bunch of

kasim: 00:41:14

companies out of business.

kasim: 00:41:16

Yeah.

kasim: 00:41:16

But they can't because Google's attribution is always gonna be Google

kasim: 00:41:19

centric and specific they're they're too.

kasim: 00:41:23

They're just gonna be, I don't wanna say too greedy.

kasim: 00:41:25

They have, they have too much of their own data and not enough of other people's.

kasim: 00:41:29

Yeah.

kasim: 00:41:29

Makes sense.

kasim: 00:41:30

Arms and Andes.

kasim: 00:41:30

Thanks for the answer.

kasim: 00:41:31

Could you please expand on sending traffic from Etsy and negatively

kasim: 00:41:34

affecting your PAX campaign?

kasim: 00:41:36

Your traffic is gonna affect it because you're still gonna

kasim: 00:41:39

remarket to those customers.

kasim: 00:41:40

So bad traffic is just gonna mean you're spending money on useless people.

kasim: 00:41:44

Julian Hoffman.

kasim: 00:41:45

Hey guys.

kasim: 00:41:46

I started a PAX campaign a week ago with one asset group with

kasim: 00:41:48

three different audience signals.

kasim: 00:41:50

I spend 30 euros a day.

kasim: 00:41:52

It performs well Roaz is five.

kasim: 00:41:54

Can I spend more now or should I wait?

kasim: 00:41:55

I, how he said it's set a five Roaz welded you're in for a surprise.

kasim: 00:41:59

Cause there's about to be a dip.

kasim: 00:42:04

no, don't increase it yet.

kasim: 00:42:05

Wait 45 to 60 days and start increasing like 20, 15, 20% every two to three weeks.

kasim: 00:42:10

And did you check the three themes?

kasim: 00:42:11

Like it's five X with pure non brand?

kasim: 00:42:13

John Rolo.

kasim: 00:42:15

because we're running outta questions.

kasim: 00:42:16

Could you explain the concept of Google maximizing the value of

kasim: 00:42:18

the inventory to me like I'm five.

kasim: 00:42:20

Yes.

kasim: 00:42:21

Google's inventory is you.

kasim: 00:42:23

So the search network is the easiest I think, to compartmentalize because every

kasim: 00:42:28

time somebody searches think of that as inventory in the store for Google,

kasim: 00:42:32

that's something that they get to sell.

kasim: 00:42:33

And the thing about that inventory is it's fleeting.

kasim: 00:42:36

Like when FA searches, Google can deliver ads, but they can only deliver ads that

kasim: 00:42:40

are available accessible for that search.

kasim: 00:42:41

In that moment, if the ads apply to that search in real time, that's

kasim: 00:42:45

why Google's expanding the ads that they'll place against searches.

kasim: 00:42:48

Google's display based inventory is the majority of their inventory to the tune

kasim: 00:42:52

of like 90 to 95% up until performance max rolled out, Google didn't have a hyper

kasim: 00:42:59

effective way to sell that inventory.

kasim: 00:43:00

So there were people running display based campaigns, but

kasim: 00:43:03

Google wasn't allowing for the targeting and segmentation

kasim: 00:43:05

that the current allowing for.

kasim: 00:43:06

And so what's really interesting is if I, and I've only ever lost money in the stock

kasim: 00:43:10

market, but if I were one of those guys that tells people what to buy, and when

kasim: 00:43:13

I'd tell you to go buy Google, because Google just found a way to maximize the

kasim: 00:43:16

value of like 95% of their inventory.

kasim: 00:43:18

The reason you always hear me bitching about Google, wanting to maximize

kasim: 00:43:21

the value of its inventory with us is if you think Casa FA and Osama all

kasim: 00:43:25

have Google ads, agencies competing, Google ads, agencies, let's say,

kasim: 00:43:28

and we're all running Google ads.

kasim: 00:43:31

What would ultimately happen in a meritocratic environment is one of

kasim: 00:43:35

us would get 80% of the customers.

kasim: 00:43:39

And the other two would share the remaining 20% of the

kasim: 00:43:42

customers and probably burn off.

kasim: 00:43:44

Well, that's not good for Google because it loses advertisers.

kasim: 00:43:47

It wants to be able to stack advertisers over time.

kasim: 00:43:49

What Google wants is to take its inventory, split it amongst us, based

kasim: 00:43:54

off of what we're willing to pay, which is based off of what we make,

kasim: 00:43:57

which is why Google wants to see.

kasim: 00:43:59

The value of a conversion.

kasim: 00:44:00

And if they split their inventory between us, not in a meritocratic

kasim: 00:44:05

way, but in a egalitarian way?

kasim: 00:44:07

They're actually gonna be able to get us to spend more money for that inventory.

kasim: 00:44:11

It's the reason everybody thinks Google's an auction.

kasim: 00:44:13

It's no longer an auction because they have these priced fixed minimums based

kasim: 00:44:17

off of what you're willing to pay.

kasim: 00:44:18

it's quite literally the most efficient form of price fixing in the market period.

kasim: 00:44:25

It's everything that everybody would speak out against.

kasim: 00:44:28

If you talked about what happens when somebody has an absolute, complete,

kasim: 00:44:31

and total monopoly, Google can see everybody who's willing to spend in

kasim: 00:44:34

the market, what it is that they're willing to spend, how much they make and

kasim: 00:44:37

how much available inventory there is.

kasim: 00:44:39

So instead of putting the market in a position where the cream is gonna rise

kasim: 00:44:43

to the top, and you have the standard pero distribution, which happens in every

kasim: 00:44:46

organic market, Google is algorithmically segmenting the inventory, two advertisers.

kasim: 00:44:52

In a way that maximizes the value of their inventory.

kasim: 00:44:54

I realize that I didn't explain that.

kasim: 00:44:55

Like you were five, I'm sorry, but that was the best I could do.

kasim: 00:44:58

I'd love to know.

kasim: 00:44:59

Would you all add anything to that?

kasim: 00:45:01

Nope.

kasim: 00:45:01

Yeah, you definitely didn't explain it.

kasim: 00:45:03

Like he's five, the version you use that's the best I could do.

kasim: 00:45:07

FA Dave Fogel says that if Google drops its touches, that means it

kasim: 00:45:10

doesn't report all conversions or just not how many touches it.

kasim: 00:45:13

How many places it touches before the conversion.

kasim: 00:45:14

Dave, to me, that means that Google doesn't know everything that happens

kasim: 00:45:17

between the, the first click and the last click mm-hmm . And it'll drop last click.

kasim: 00:45:21

And you can see that if you overlook at conversions inside of analytics,

kasim: 00:45:24

especially in the not provided provisions,

kasim: 00:45:26

arms and Andes, Amazon is also expanding on verifying sustainable

kasim: 00:45:30

brands, which mediums in your experience work best with PAX.

kasim: 00:45:32

We're currently looking at Pinterest, Etsy, Amazon, and eBay.

kasim: 00:45:35

We answered this kind of, I mean, you're gonna have to test

kasim: 00:45:37

somebody doesn't look right.

kasim: 00:45:39

Answer.

kasim: 00:45:40

Yeah.

kasim: 00:45:40

It's also depending on your brand too.

kasim: 00:45:42

Yeah.

kasim: 00:45:43

Dennis Thomas, some of my Shopify stores have an extreme gap between track

kasim: 00:45:46

conversions and actual conversions, Google shopping, only traffic source.

kasim: 00:45:49

How do I know if the tracking is accurate?

kasim: 00:45:50

Dennis, go get an at a third party tracking tool.

kasim: 00:45:54

I like north beam.

kasim: 00:45:55

I own 1% of north beam.

kasim: 00:45:57

So I am partial.

kasim: 00:45:58

And he said, there's an extreme gap.

kasim: 00:46:00

Go look at convergence.

kasim: 00:46:01

My conversion time.

kasim: 00:46:02

Oh, there you go.

kasim: 00:46:04

Yeah.

kasim: 00:46:04

Dave says, we've got three minutes.

kasim: 00:46:08

If you tell it where to give you the attribution and you're probably wrong.

kasim: 00:46:11

Why use it?

kasim: 00:46:12

Because being a little wrong or even medium wrong is way better

kasim: 00:46:15

than being all the way wrong.

kasim: 00:46:17

and so at least you'd have something.

kasim: 00:46:19

Steve, is it possible to have too many asset groups per campaign?

kasim: 00:46:23

I currently have 96 asset groups based on 12.

kasim: 00:46:25

What are you spending Steve?

kasim: 00:46:26

And the answer to that is you can never have too many asset groups

kasim: 00:46:30

saw Osama had 156 asset groups.

kasim: 00:46:34

he was forced to create two PAX.

kasim: 00:46:37

I was gonna say, cuz it's limited to a hundred per right?

kasim: 00:46:39

Yes.

kasim: 00:46:40

Let to create two.

kasim: 00:46:41

Oh Hey, somebody gave us 10 bucks.

kasim: 00:46:43

Nice to snip.

kasim: 00:46:44

Thank you.

kasim: 00:46:45

Any suggestions on what to do?

kasim: 00:46:47

E-commerce PAX campaign is father's day buyers decrease.

kasim: 00:46:51

Will it automatically scale down, spend due to low Roaz I'm using RO targets.

kasim: 00:46:55

Yeah, it should correct itself soon.

kasim: 00:46:58

What about seasonality adjustments?

kasim: 00:46:59

Do you guys use that at all?

kasim: 00:47:01

I just said pay max to its.

kasim: 00:47:02

It get depths for a bit and then it figures it out.

kasim: 00:47:05

Okay.

kasim: 00:47:05

Steve, you spending enough at a hundred dollars a day?

kasim: 00:47:08

Like let Google do his own thing.

kasim: 00:47:10

Okay.

kasim: 00:47:10

Just try to guide the AI.

kasim: 00:47:13

Okay.

kasim: 00:47:13

Do not try to go do this.

kasim: 00:47:16

Don't do that.

kasim: 00:47:17

Don't try to game the system.

kasim: 00:47:18

Yeah.

kasim: 00:47:19

I think we answered Steve's question already.

kasim: 00:47:21

Yeah.

kasim: 00:47:22

Steve Osama says you're not spend enough.

kasim: 00:47:24

You gotta go spend more money.

kasim: 00:47:25

Max Vander gave arms and bandies a really good tip by the way.

kasim: 00:47:28

All right.

kasim: 00:47:28

Very last question.

kasim: 00:47:30

Jay did the URL targeting options, people who visited URL URLs, like including

kasim: 00:47:34

URLs that have GA on them, wondering how Google knows someone visited a page.

kasim: 00:47:37

That's our assumption.

kasim: 00:47:38

Google hasn't told us, but if Google analytics is installed, my

kasim: 00:47:41

assumption is Google is cataloging.

kasim: 00:47:42

Every single thing that every human has ever done on that

kasim: 00:47:44

page ever for their entire life.

kasim: 00:47:46

Mm-hmm by the way.

kasim: 00:47:47

We are having a hard time explaining this to the clients.

kasim: 00:47:50

It's people who are similar to go, like you're not exactly

kasim: 00:47:55

targeting those people, right?

kasim: 00:47:56

So you have a competitor, you put that custom URL in targeting.

kasim: 00:48:00

You're not targeting people who visit that the page, right.

kasim: 00:48:05

You're targeting people who are likely with that's.

kasim: 00:48:08

It's more likely to collect audiences for that.

kasim: 00:48:10

Why it's not exact, it's a polite suggestion.

kasim: 00:48:13

One of the things we did is we targeted specific URL URLs,

kasim: 00:48:16

but we didn't use the URL URLs.

kasim: 00:48:18

Like we used the custom audiences and then we targeted specific login URLs.

kasim: 00:48:23

We did this for sharp spring users and it was nuts how well it worked.

kasim: 00:48:27

The CEO of sharp spring reached out to the CEO of high level.

kasim: 00:48:29

Cause we were doing it as go high level affiliates.

kasim: 00:48:32

And he sent him like a WTF email.

kasim: 00:48:34

He was like, dude, what are you doing?

kasim: 00:48:35

Like we were going straight at him.

kasim: 00:48:37

We're the fourth highest ranked high level affiliate.

kasim: 00:48:39

And , that was , the largest acquisition strategy we ran was just going

kasim: 00:48:42

after sharp spring users, based off of who's going to that login page.

kasim: 00:48:47

We did it.

kasim: 00:48:47

We're a minute over.

kasim: 00:48:48

Y'all appreciate everybody as always.

kasim: 00:48:50

Thanks for showing up FA Osama.

kasim: 00:48:52

Thanks for filling in for John.

kasim: 00:48:53

Appreciate you guys subscribe to our YouTube channel and we'll see you next.